Deus Ex: Human Revolution Has Boss Battles. Problem?


(This is another edition of </RANT>, a weekly opinion piece column on GameFront. Check back every week for more. The opinions expressed are those of the author, and do not reflect those of GameFront.)

Apparently, the fact that Deus Ex: Human Revolution has boss battles is a terrible, terrible thing. I was completely unaware of this fact until today, when I saw that some people were throwing a hissy fit over it. The game is pretty damn great, and critics almost universally agree, but that doesn’t matter because one negative aspect has been found. Let us all focus on that instead.

Nukezilla in particular stated that the Deus Ex: Human Revolution suffered due to a herd mentality. Its article headline reads: “On Putting Things Into Your Game Because You Think They Have To Be There,” which is a particularly stunning assumption (especially from someone who confesses to having not played the game and thus doesn’t have any context with which to make such a claim), and quotes a whole bunch of otherwise positive reviews that rag on the boss battles, essentially using thems to “prove” that the boss battles in Human Revolution are unnecessary and consequently harmful to the game’s overall quality.

Well, I feel I must join Ben Kuchera in voicing some support for the boss battles, as not only did I feel them necessary to the story the game was trying to tell, I also quite liked them.

I’ve played the game to completion and reviewed it on Destructoid. In conversation about it, I’ve made several references to Metal Gear Solid, which seems to be a clear inspiration for many aspects of Human Revolution. Due to the game’s prequel status, deep story, cast of characters and overall atmosphere (not to mention quality) I have named Human Revolution the Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater of this generation, and it’s a title I very staunchly believe in. As Snake Eater is one of my favorite games of all time, it’s not a comparison I make lightly, either. To me, the game’s boss fights are part of what makes that comparison truly resonate. After all, what’s a Metal Gear Solid game without a memorable boss or five?

While it’s true that Deus Ex’s first boss battle is a little lacking, I found the subsequent ones to be incredibly cool encounters. One involves battling a woman who would stalk you while cloaked in a Hologram’s A.I. hub, while the A.I itself would desperately try to help you track her. Another was a fight against a similarly Augmented man who wore a costume that made him look like one of the many animatronic statues littering a maze-like room. It was a rather tense, cat-and-mouse battle that I felt was incredibly well done, especially due to the fact that protagonist Adam Jensen was affected by [REDACTED DUE TO SPOILERS] at the time.

To some, however, it’s not the quality of the battles, but the involuntary nature of them. To this argument, I can’t help but wonder exactly how spoiled some gamers really have become. Yes, it’s true, the Deus Ex series has always put player choice on a rather high pedestal, and there are many gamers who enjoy “Pacifist Runs” where they don’t have to kill anybody. One can choose to undertake almost every mission without lethally dispatching an enemy, but there are a few moments where the player doesn’t have a choice. Welcome to real fucking life. Sometimes we don’t have a choice, and I’d say that when an enemy starts a fight to the death, one doesn’t really have to worry about tainting poor Adam’s soul by having him kill the jackass. I really don’t see what the big deal here is. You can still have your pacifist run — there are just moments where you’re going to have to lethally defend yourself, and it’s pretty much the other guy’s fault.

Let’s not forget that the first Deus Ex also does this. While many boss situations can be avoided or escaped, you at least have to kill Navarra  before you can finish the game, and if you’re not hooked up to an FAQ, there are many situations that you wouldn’t even think could be solved non-violently. As far as I can tell, it’s never been possible to have a completely bloodless pacifist run in a Deus Ex game, at least not without modification or cheating.

To bring back Metal Gear Solid, the same is true here. You can have Snake go through the majority of the game without killing anybody … except for certain moments. During boss fights and other predetermined sequences, there are times when you have to bend to the game’s will in order for it to tell the story it wants to tell. I’m completely fine with that. Metal Gear Solid is primarily a stealth game, but there are plenty of action sequences that run contrary to whatever the player might want to do. When I play a game, I’m not expecting 100% freedom, even with games like Fallout or Deus Ex where player choice is important. When people complain because they’ve been given more free choice than usual and then expect more, the old adage of someone being given an inch and wanting a mile springs to mind.

That’s what this is really about, as far as I can see. A game like Deus Ex spoils players. It gives them more flexibility than other games, and as such, players get more uppity and snotty when they can’t have everything exactly their way. The amount of choice in Deus Ex: Human Revolution is truly inspiring and very impressive, so for people to get bitchy because of those few instances where the developers borrowed the steering wheel for a moment just smacks of Spoiled Gamer Syndrome. The game already lets you do more than most games … it seems incredibly bratty to get angry or upset because you can’t have even more.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to angrily tell SEGA that they suck because Sonic is a hedgehog and not a cat like I wanted!

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85 Comments on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Has Boss Battles. Problem?

Joseph

On August 25, 2011 at 6:33 am

This is the reason why I read several reviews. While stating the boss fights, loading times, stiff animations, rare AI glitches are valid points because they are there but they`re MINOR. When compared to the whole picture they do not deter from enjoying the game. Nothing is perfect but as far as game design, art design, story, gameplay (most important aspects of the game) it doesn`t get better than this.

You can`t play every game that comes out but to miss out on Deus Ex is a shame because titles like this belong on the top 20 games you have to play in 2011. You`re denying yourself an enjoyable 40hours experience because some idiot`s out of context exaggerated opinion. $60 is well spent here my friend, worry not.

While I do appreciate a full complete picture with all the good and bad aspects mentioned, its up to me as the reader to read critically and take everything into context. I`m glad I read about the boss fight issue. I will make sure I have proper weapons and not just a tranquilizer pistol before that fight now. But that doesn`t mean it breaks the game and for anyone to suggest it does so only mars their creditability and hopefully the public sees right through it…errr I hope.

Joseph

On August 25, 2011 at 6:53 am

I got this game on preorder and now playing it. Graphics is not photogenic but its superb art design. I think the visual are fantastic. Enjoy exploring this make belief world. Everybody is different but this is my type of game. You are drawn into the game. The story, visuals, conversations-you are living in it. You are Jensen.

This is a mature thinking RPG game that lets play it so many ways. I see myself going back over and over again trying different things. Trying different tactics. This is a keeper and I would never trade it in. I can easily come back and enjoy this game some years from now and get another 40hours enjoyment out of it. All for just $60. If all games were of this quality, $60 is not bad at all. In fact is a deal. you can`t get this much enjoyment out of $60 anywhere else.

CHoedy

On August 25, 2011 at 10:30 am

Ohh look Jim ing about something that’s completely fine again! They are boss battles in Deus Ex so why shouldn’t there be in DEHR? Your a ing fat slob who needs to die.Im going to laugh when the escapist does not pay you like they did extra credit for your ty show and you get all pissy with them and leave.go yourself fatass but I guess your use to that because no one else would.

Joseph

On August 25, 2011 at 11:51 am

CHoedy, you’re an idiot.STFU.

Renny

On August 25, 2011 at 2:45 pm

The problem isn’t that there are bossfights, it’s that without prior knowledge of them, a player can screw themselves by not having augmentations that help with combat. My fight with the first guy was hell because I had no lethal weapons on me, and all my augs were geared towards stealth and hacking. No strength increases, no dermal plating, no aiming assistance, just cloak, soft running, and the whole gambit of hacking augs. a guy with grenades and a full auto machine gun punches through me in seconds, and it just becomes a tedious affair of me trying to collect the meager weapons in the room, some ammo, and hoping I can kill him before i run out. Even in the original Deus ex, you could kill Anna with a killphrase (Flatlander Woman), allowing the hacking and stealth players to still complete that without having to resort to cheesing the AI and/or trying the same boss fight over and over again hoping more bullets land in him, but not myself.

That first bossfight took a segment of over half an hour trying not to get plastered on the walls while i tried to take potshots and lure him into the mines. Hell, just allowing some melee weapons would be nice, because takedowns don’t work on bosses either.

could you imagine how tense it would be to have to sneak away from the boss and try to hack a security panel to active a turret in the room, all the while hoping the boss doesn’t stumble upon your location? or with the strength upgrade (specifically the breaking walls one) be able to land a devastating punch to them? or even just being able to cloak and stealth around behind them to deal a little bit of damage in hand to hand?

It’s a great game, but the player has to be ready for gunfights whether they like it or not, and there is no prior indication of this. That’s the problem.

JosephPS3

On August 25, 2011 at 5:04 pm

@ Renny

Thank Renny. Well said. I totally understand what you’re saying buddy and I have to agree with you. Eidos did mess that up. I know a few people who had the exact same problem and they got so frustrated they just gave up and decided to load an ealier save point and re-allocate augment and get more weapons.

Had I not read about this earlier on I would have been in the exact same boat and I would have been disappointed in what was up to know superb game design and balance.

I totally agree with your comment about the killphrase and other possible recommendation. That would have been keeping in line with allowing players choice. As it is, the game does punish you for taking a strick hacking/stealth route. Hopefully, Eidos learns from this and I sure hope there is a sequel.

In the meantime, damn, are there other boss fights I have to prepare for? lol

Steve

On August 25, 2011 at 9:21 pm

I hate the boss fights in this game, they totally ruin the flow of it. I don’t have a problem with boss fights in general, but I hated how they forced you to beat them a certain way, especially when the rest of the game is about the freedom to choose how to handle things. Also I went full out on combat specialty and I found the second boss ridiculously hard compared to everything up to that point.

anaris

On August 25, 2011 at 9:21 pm

it is possible to complete the first Deus Ex without killing Navarra, however getting past her requires a bit of a cheeky exploit that isn’t exactly cheating but is gaming the ai logic.

JosephPS3

On August 26, 2011 at 4:59 am

Okay Anaris… so would you mind telling us how to do it or what that exploit is lol.

lolwut?

On August 26, 2011 at 5:44 am

Hey guise! Let’s not ever mention anything negative about Deus Ex: Human Revolution, because it’s perfect and I’m fapping to it and everyone should do the same!

dawkins

On August 26, 2011 at 12:44 pm

2 points.

1. You are the head of a company’s security force not a spy, if you left yourself without a way to deal lethal damage in the few situations where it is absolutely required you clearly missed the context of the story. Its like being a peace keeper without weapons, sure you want to do everything you can to avoid combet but you must be ready when it is forced upon you.

2. The Pacifist runs in Deus ex were damaging to the story. One point particularly comes to mind. If you dodge Walton Simon twice (in the under water base and area 51 outside) he just gives up. WTF? If the programmers had kept Walton true to his character he would have hunted you down to the ends of the earth. But people tout being able to dodge him twice and then have him go home to get a beer as a story telling revolution!

Jonah Falcon

On August 26, 2011 at 2:10 pm

“The Pacifist runs in Deus ex were damaging to the story.”

No, they weren’t.

The issue is that the boss fights are one huge YOU if you chose, say, the stealth/avoidance route. It’s called a bottleneck in a game which purports to give you freedom.

In Deus Ex, you could eliminate two bosses by finding out their killswitch. Simons, you could cloak yourself beforehand and make a LAM minefield that’ll kill him.

JosephPS3

On August 26, 2011 at 2:10 pm

@ Dawkins

huh? I understand your 2 points. You explain them clearly but what’s your “point”? lol Are you saying therefore DXHR is not such a great game? THere are problems? The original is better?

I can read english and your points are written well enough but whats your “point”? lol

JosephPS3

On August 26, 2011 at 2:13 pm

@ Jonah Falcon,

You make me laugh man. “…the boss fights are one huge you if you chose stealth/avoidance” ahaha. Its funny cause its kind of true. I can hear you almost say like a comedian.

Thanks for the laugh lol

Jonah Falcon

On August 26, 2011 at 2:29 pm

And worse, having killswitches for those two bosses FIT THE ING MYTHOLOGY, because you could kill Gunther and Anna with just a word: their killswitch.

Jonah Falcon

On August 26, 2011 at 2:36 pm

I simply can’t get past the second boss fight. At all. Even looking at the hint guides. Game over, you, start over.

I choose to wipe it from my hard drive til someone reveals a God mode.

JosephPS3

On August 26, 2011 at 2:53 pm

@ Jonah.

That’s a mistake dude. I know you’re frustrated and upset now but as you’re lying in bed and cursing you’ll be thinking, “ I got to try again” lol and you’re going install it again tomorrow. Then delete it again until someone reveals a better hint and install it again and try it yet again but that hint was worthless so you curse and delete it again until next day a GOD mode is revealed and you install it again lol

Just leave it in and step away and take a deep breath. Go outside and scream out every foul word that’ll make a trucker cringe.

dawkins

On August 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm

@joseph

Ahh good point I forgot to conclude my 2 points. Lol

What I’m saying is the HR Boss fights are fine, you cannot have a Deus Ex character who is unprepared for confrontation because for the reasons I listed above (you are a special agent)confrontation will come your way as part of your character’s story.

@Jonah

Gunther and Anna’s kill switches are cool, I am not disagreeing with pacifist options at all (I like making the bosses of Mass effect and fallout commit suicide equally) but the fact that people literally run past Simons in area 51 and then claim that the game was so well designed that you can avoid killing this ‘final’ boss are deluding themselves. So are the people that glitch away from Anna and Run away from Gunther, just because the characters aren’t scripted to follow you down the street doesn’t mean they shouldn’t.

If you put a LAM field around Simons before confronting him it kind of assumes knowledge of the encounter that JC does not have.

id0

On August 26, 2011 at 11:55 pm

Don’t read previus comment, just wanna talk I don’t like that stupid boss battles. I like metal gear too, and all like that, but here in Deus Ex it’s nonsence. First of all in Deus Ex 1 was boss battles, yes, but in this game you can just find the secret word, tell it to boss and BOOM – he just explode ;) Don’t necesary to figth him. Here in DEHR, bosses battles like hello 90, hello metalgear and RE. Why? Why “Back to the future”? If DE is positioning itself like serious game with the freedom of choice (what is it certainly is) why do these stupid bosses, from which not even run? This is all the damn Japanese, with Sqare.

Kyle S.

On August 27, 2011 at 7:20 am

My problem isn’t that I have to kill, it’s that in order to beat the first boss I have to use a skillset that, prior to said boss fight, the game had clearly been advising against cultivating. If I can get through 75% of the game with stealth and avoidance, I should be able to get through a boss fight using similar tactics. Because of the playstyle I chose, fighting the first boss was like playing a completely different game. That’s just poor design in my opinion.

Ang

On August 27, 2011 at 2:56 pm

I got problem in chapter 6.

Tashi

On August 28, 2011 at 1:23 am

All those reviews are right. The boss fights are unimaginative garbage. People can try and spin it all they want. In great boss fights (like in the first Metal Gear for example) I don’t mind dying 3, 4, 5, a dozen times because it’s still fun. Deus Ex bosses are not fun. This is nothing but a tedious mess to you have to get through to get back to playing the good part of the game. Sorry but the dev assed that part of the game up big time. Play the game anyway you want but we designed the bosses for only one type of gameplay oops sorry.

JC

On August 28, 2011 at 1:47 am

The first boss caught me a little by surprise as well, however my stealth hacker happened to have an impressive weapon collection at the time due to the fact I had been trading just about every gun that wasn’t nailed down in to the Detroit arms dealers for credits. Just because I figured it would be worth quite a bit, I’d picked up the sniper rifle before the boss fight.

It took me a total of about nine shots plus an emp grenade to put the first boss down. The second boss was actually a lot of fun, and there were options to take a more traditional DE route. While I had to fight, I never actually fired AT the boss, and was still able to win.

Also, if you don’t want to have to worry about bosses, raids from teams of heavy commandos, or assault mechs… just install every upgrade you can find for the revolver. In Human Revolution’s version of the Psycho Mantis boss fight, all I had to do was crouch behind cover and blind fire my .357 magnum explosive shells in the boss’s general direction. What I have seen described as a tense game of cat and mouse, with the attending plot based complications, took me about ten seconds during which I was not required to move once.

Mike

On August 28, 2011 at 4:19 am

Personally… I feel that the boss fights are kind of needed in a game like this.

Whilst I am only upto the first boss, this one at least is a human boss, made more difficult by cybernetics… Which makes sense. If you fought people decked out in cybernetics and augmentations constantly, then it’d be quite dull… That most of what I have fought (so far) are basic humans, it shows that to this point, people with cybernetics ARE much harder than standard humans…

No idea if it’ll remain this way, but I am really enjoying it… The actual gameplay really reminds me a lot of Alpha Protocol to be honest, another game I liked.

rj stone

On August 28, 2011 at 11:47 am

The “boss” fights in DE Human Revolution are ridiculous and unimaginative. Period.

Nothing screams “poor level design” like simply cranking up hit the points on “the boss” at the end of a level.

There’s also nothing that can completely ruin the immersion and sense of realism in a game like a character that can take 5 direct shots to the head from a sniper rifle and the only effect is a head bob and some poorly written dialog. I hope you like pineapples.

Great way to ruin an otherwise promising title. Like other posters, I agree that these boss levels completely ruin the flow of the game and kill my interest in completing it. The boss fights just aren’t that fun or interesting, and just get in the way of an otherwise great game.

Mahou

On August 28, 2011 at 4:47 pm

The problem I have with this review is you assume the only problem people have is with the killing part. I don’t care that I have to kill the bosses on my pacifist run, that’s fine. The problem is that I have limited inventory space, so I don’t keep the large, space-consuming lethal weapons on me. This isn’t a problem with guards, who I can just knock out, but non-lethal weapons do next to nothing to the bosses making it very cumbersome to try and defeat them when I have nothing but a stun gun and a tranq rifle.

Going back you your apt Snake Eater comparison, these games knew that you might be lacking in lethal weapons when they sprung a boss battle on you, so they gave all the bosses stamina bars as well as health bars. This way if you’re only armed with a tranq pistol, you’re not out of luck.

If you remember in the first Deus Ex, both Anna Navarra and Gunther Hermann had “kill phrases” that you could learn with some exploration and thus avoid having to fight them to kill them. Even if you did have to fight, you probably had some grenades on you and it wasn’t overly difficult to kill them with a couple well-aimed explosives. That’s the difference here. There’s no kill phrase or other such alternate method and these bosses are very tanky making it difficult to kill them if you’re shooting for a pacifist run.

ac429

On August 28, 2011 at 5:02 pm

I was a huge fan of Deus Ex 1, and I even enjoyed the second game. I regret spending $60 on this game, though. I barely got passed the first boss after maybe 30 tries. However, I know there will be more difficult boss battles ahead, which completely kills my motivation to keep playing.

A lot of people say that the boss fights are there to show you that, sometimes you have no choice, and you are forced into violence. No. This game emphasized (according to the people who made this game), 4 pillars: Hack, Social, Stealth, Shooter. Was there a point where, if you could not hack something, you could not possibly progress in the story? Was there a point where, if you could not charm your way through, you could not possibly progress in the story? What about for stealth?

If the answer is no for any of these questions, then why are there (not one, but) three points, where if you do not have good enough twitch-control, you cannot possibly progress in the game? I think this shows that Deus Ex: Human Revolution failed to transcend the shooter genre it claims to do. In fact, it regressed deeper into the genre’s cliches, compared to it’s predecessors, becoming more like Gears of War (bosses) or Halo (health).

nosdormu

On August 28, 2011 at 8:38 pm

i dont mind killing them i mean they did take your girl and friends and through you through a wall story wise i would kill them if given the chance and what do you want to beat them with harsh language its a great game better than most games alot of people buy ive bought games for less everyone needs to stop whining and be happy as for the bosses fights now you know and knowing is half the battle.

JC

On August 28, 2011 at 10:48 pm

Don’t worry about having to be a master of twitch control to beat the bosses. Use the game mechanics that you have available. Even the first boss can be dealt with fairly easily through dodging and misdirection, even though it kind of reminds me of the Tick cartoon when I can shoot a guy straight in the face with a sniper rifle and somehow not manage to convert the inside of his head into a cloud of pink mist.

Spoiler alert. Boss two can be killed with a grand total of two well placed mines (hint, notice the environment) I even believe they are polite enough to provide said mines (and mine templates as well) in a locker in the boss room, and there is more then enough of a window between assaults to stock up and get your plan together.

Boss three can, as I stated above, be completely obliterated by blind firing a souped up revolver in his general direction. I believe blind mine tossing would also work.

Even when the game forces you to fight, it gives you enough of an advantage that it shouldn’t be that much of a problem. I was playing a very pared down Stealth/Hacker build. I only took the augs I wanted/needed, and didn’t push most of them up beyond the first level (aside from hacking, which I totaled out). At the end of the game, I had , I think, 18 praxis points left over that I never needed to allocate.

My inventory at the end consisted of a tranq rifle, stun gun, modded revolver, 30+ nuke viruses, 16 stop worms, 5 painkillers, 3 emp grenades, 4 emp mines, a ton of ammo for the tranq, stunner, and revolver, and a handful of candy bars.

I had one level of stealth, maxed hacking, social enhancer (kind of a waste, only had to use it twice), see through walls, icarus flight, move silently, jump, improved sprint, inventory upgrade, all the recharge upgrades for the battery cell, but only the two initial cells, and reflex enhancer.

In other words… I was not playing a combat build, by any means, but I had no trouble with the game.

I expect the hardest difficulty is going to make my next play through a lot more interesting, especially since I’m planning on turning my second Jensen into Robocop.

BW

On August 29, 2011 at 6:04 am

@Dawkins:

I get what you’re saying in your first point, but I disagree. A “security expert”, like in real life, would not necessarily be the person out gunning down intruders; he/she would be the person who hires the armed goons, tells them where and when to go, and generally organizes security. It’s more realistic that the security guy for a cybernetics company would be a hacker, or have strong interrogation/negotiation skills. In RL, you wouldn’t expect a hostage negotiator or chief of police to double as a SWAT guy, and snipers aren’t equipped (or expected) to engage in door-to-door firefights.

Also, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who are commenting on boss fights being no big deal are playing on normal or easy, and/or playing characters with combat skills. Sure, hard’s supposed to be hard, but I signed up for the Random-Hall-Monitor-One-Shots-You hard, not obnoxious boss fight hard.

@Mr. Sterling:

Drop the straw-man and take a valium before your heart acts up. The issue, as has been repeatedly and aptly stated, is not that, “Whaaaaa, boss fights are hard!” It’s that they’re jarring if you play in the style which, up to that point, the game has rewarded with easier progress through maps, more experience, and additional in-game goodies. It’s not, as you rather disingenuously imply, that people want a Sonic to be a cat–although I do think it’s interesting that you have a sort of Stalin-esque view of consumer opinion–it’s that we’ve been playing Deus Ex for four hours and all of a sudden can’t progress until we beat a level of Donkey Kong with a blindfold on.

In fact, one might wonder if YOU have actually played the game. During the second boss fight, I don’t know that I would characterize the occassional subdued mention of the obvious, “She’s coming for you, Adam,” as “desperately” trying to help me track the boss. If she’s that desperate, maybe she could project one of her eight million holograms with a finger pointing towards the boss. Also, the boss doesn’t so much “stalk” you as chase your ass around the room detonating. Not quite sniper vs. sniper.

jake

On August 29, 2011 at 7:49 am

i have never liked RPGs so I wasn’t sure i’d like this but ever since i got this i haven’t stopped playing it and the only thing that really annoyed me was forgetting to save for a really long time.

Chris

On August 29, 2011 at 12:36 pm

The trouble is as much as I wish the boss fights were a minor problem they’re not. For people who don’t play many computer games such as myself, obligatory boss fights which don’t fit in at all with the flow of the game (and have NO plot relevance) really do make it hard to personally enjoy it. One of the reasons why people are so pissed off with the boss fights is that the rest of the game is so good.

If the bosses had any plot relevance at all in the game, one of the main characters would have some relationship one way or the other with them. How the hell can the be integral to the plot if you don’t actually know their name unless you look them up on the website.

I have to say in this aspect Invisible War got it right. But I guess the game had to fold to the “conventional way”

nosdormu

On August 29, 2011 at 1:02 pm

when i first got to the boss i had uptill that point used stealth and had combat weapons for backup i figure you dont go into an armed warehouse with just some hope and a taser and needless to say i only died once during the boss fight and after that i stocked up on gear because i figured there would be more to come besides after what they did to jenson i kill them good

SeraphTC

On August 29, 2011 at 3:08 pm

@Chris – er, I think you missed something there. The boss fights are COMPLETELY plot relevant.

The player DOES have a relationship with them – they tried to kill him, and (without posting spoilers) killed his collegues.

‘How the hell can they be integreal to the plot if you don’t know thier names…’

JENSON REMEBERS THEIR FACES BUT DOESN’T KNOW WHO THEY ARE!! How the hell would he know their names!?!

Have you actually played the game??

Madrauk

On August 29, 2011 at 6:46 pm

@SeraphTC
i wouldn’t say calling bosses non plot relevant has any hold in a “have you played the game!?” argument.

also, i would personally like to supplement the opinion shown on these comments by a wise few that the boss fights are a completely different experience, and not altogether a better one, in comparison to the rest of the game.

i play a part hacker build that mainly constitutes all the flashy powers like icarus landing, punching through walls, lifting heavy stuff, invisibility (i had no choice on that one), full hacking, social enhancer, the likes. can’t blame me for liking noticeable abilities. i tend to choose these instead of things like dermal plating, aim assist, background combat related things like that. this has caused the second boss to be hell for me, i just can’t beat it no matter what i do. i was originally searching for a god mode or cheat or something here so i could get back to infiltration and assassination and parkour, things i would expect from a deus ex game and that has made it personal game-of-the-year for me up until this point.

i’m going to go ahead and try that mine trick mentioned above, but personally, i think the boss battles could have been better done.

JC

On August 29, 2011 at 7:22 pm

With the mine technique, once I had both set I only had to dodge one group of attacks. After that, the boss went back into run away and hide mode, and triggered both mines in short order. This was on normal difficulty, so I’m not sure if it will work as well on Hard (haven’t gotten back to the area in my new playthrough yet).

Make sure you’ve got a painkiller or two on hand, or the EMP shielding aug, because when the floor lights up, you will take damage fast. I was able to avoid dying by holding a pair of long jumps. The fight literally took me two mines, some dodging/running (careful not to trigger your own mines!), some jumping and a painkiller.

JosephPS3

On August 30, 2011 at 1:04 pm

Poll: Trade in /Sell Deus Ex in 1 month for other Oct and Nov Games.

Okay so how many of you will be trading Deus Ex for another game in Oct, Nov. You’ll probably be able to get $30 easily for another hit like Rage, Batman, Dark Souls, Skyrim, Battlefield3, MW3, Uncharted3.

I’m not saying Deus Ex is a bad game. I love the game but because of some of its faults its not a keeper for me. I’ll play it to death for a month and trade it in for credit.

So whose Trading/Selling Deus Ex after a month?

Trade/Sell?
Keep?

JosephPS3-Trade/Sell

JC

On August 31, 2011 at 11:50 am

While I don’t think it has anywhere near the replay value that the original had, I don’t think I’ll be trading it in. For this generation of consoles, DE:HR does what it does better than any other game I’ve played. As someone who still owns DE, IW, and Project:Snowblind, I’m very loyal to the series and not about to cash the newest (and second best overall) iteration in.

I’m curious what faults warrant classifying a game as “not a keeper.”

I do think the current wiki generation is a detriment to replay value. If you follow a guide and get the “best” route through the game the first time, the need for replays falls off dramatically. It would be better for people to just play the game, instead of run to the internet and post “How do I (this)?” It feels like a whole generation of gamers are coming up without the actual experience of discovering something for themselves.

An example would be that I didn’t even know you could save Paul in Deus Ex until Invisible War came out, and it wasn’t until a couple months ago when I replayed the original to get ready for Human Revolution that I learned you could killphrase Gunther.

Human Revolution doesn’t feel like it has that kind of depth, the feeling that every time you play it, you are going to find something you never noticed before. I think that is the overall tradeoff in modern games though: The better a game looks, the smaller it is going to be.

That said, it is still a hell of a lot better than most of what I’ve seen lately, so its staying in my library.

JosephPS3

On August 31, 2011 at 5:15 pm

Its not that DEHR is a bad game. It has lots of replay value. The only reason why I would consider trading it in is because of DEHR success. I think the game is great and will sell well and because of that there will be a sequel. The sequel will improve on everything including some of the minor faults of DEHR: 1)Boss fights 2)AI 3)glitches 4)Loading time 5)Only 2 cities 6)Still animation 7)Graphics could be better.

The next game will have much large city to explore. Better everything. As a result of that I don’t see myself going back to DEHR when the sequel is so much better.

I traded a lot of games I thought I’d keep forever: Civilization Forever, Valkyria Chronicles, ReddeadRedemption, GTA etc That’s just PS3. I have ps2 games as well. But I find myself almost never going back to replay after I played them 2 or 3 times. There are always new and interesting games being release that I don’t have time to go back and replay them nore the interest.

I’ll replay DEHR 2-3 times and probably never touch it again. After 2-3 years when I feel like playing it again, there will be a sequel. I buy games new and traded it in for about half the cost. SO I’m basically renting the game for $30/2 months.

I feed the used game market lol. If ppl wait 2 months, they’ll be able to get my copy for half the price and keep it forever. Its almost like an ecosystem. Nothing gets wasted.

JosephPS3

On August 31, 2011 at 5:22 pm

Perfect Examples:

1) Oblivion- I thought I would keep that game forever. I played that game 3-4 times. But then I’ve seen it all and done it all. That was 3 years ago and now I do feel like playing a game like Oblivion again and what do you know, Skyrim is coming out and its going to be better everything. Now will I go back and play Oblivion and dump another 150hours of my life into that or the new and improved SKyrim. No Skyrim will eat 150hours of my life.

2) Demon Souls-Same thing, I thought I never sell that game. Also put in over 100 hours. But now Dark Souls is coming out and its better in every way.

I don’t think I”ll ever go back to the original when the sequel is so much better. I work and just don’t have enough time to go back for nostalgia purpose to replay old traditional games.

JC

On August 31, 2011 at 7:32 pm

I work too, I’m just a very boring person who usually has at least one full day per weekend to kill with nothing else to do after I’ve cut the grass, detailed my car, and attacked parts of the yard with the weed eater, heh.

As much as I want there to be a sequel to this game, I’m worried they might pull another Invisible War by “fixing” the game until it is broken.

Even so, I’d love to start a game off as a Versalife or Page Industries heavy, a wide eyed idealist who believes the corporation is doing great work for humanity, just so he could have the floor collapse out from under him when he realizes he’s working for, well… the digital age satan incarnate.

As to why I replay my old games; at best, I only buy a couple of games a year, and then usually only ones I know I will likely replay several times. I’ve got a total of 20 games for the 360, four of which were big disappointments. I like to support new games, and franchises that I really enjoy, but I do not want to reward mediocrity with anything higher than a single rental fee. When I’ve got time to kill, but nothing promising on the horizon, of course I’ll come back to tried and true gems.

JosephPS3

On September 1, 2011 at 4:02 am

@JC

If I was like you and only bought a couple of games a year then Deus Ex would definitely be a keeper. DEHR is one of the few games that provide endless hours of replayability. But I buy about 10 brand new games a year and another 10 used games that I did not get on release. There are games I bought and havent played yet lol

But man, just 2 or 3 games a year. If I had to choose: 1) DEHR 2)SKyrim 3) UC3. Those 3 games right there would keep me entertain the whole year until next year I had to only choose another 3.

JC, you certainly get a lot more out of each game than me. You really explore and try out the game and have a lot more appreciation of the game than compared to me.

I do not think I am hurting the franchise by selling my copy because those ppl who later buy it used were not big fans of this type of game. Just like I was curious about Castlevania Lord of Shadows and Infamous2 but was not all that interested in playing it on release. But now that I can get it for $30 used I am willing to try it out.

If the gaming industry wanted to stamp out the used game market then all they have to do is lower the price to $30 after 2-3 months. Ppl who really want it will buy it on release and those that are not as excited or interested will be willing when the price drops 2-3 months later. But the price of DEHR will still be $60 2-3 months later and thus the used game market. One of the main reason why I sell mine is because I can still get half of what I paid for. If the publisher dropped DEHR to $30 then I would only get $10 for my copy. I would keep it then.

OirishM

On September 1, 2011 at 1:10 pm

I’m curious as to how wishing for an equal or improved standard of a particular gameplay aspect to be present in the next game in the series becomes equivalent to being spoiled. There are certainly some welcome improvements to DX-style gameplay in HR but many of the gameplay mechanics either haven’t been improved upon at all or are downright regressive.

For those that did elect to fight the boss characters in DX, I’m not going to sit here and claim that the actual combat was better, I seem to recall simply emptying a machine-gun clip into Navarre’s head on my first playthrough with Ballistic Shield activated and then furiously backpedalling. What actually annoys me most about the boss fights in HR is that you know absolutely jack about them. I could be wrong, but you don’t even seem to find that many emails or background information on them. In the first game you worked with Navarre and Hermann, so the crap combat was at least tempered with some plot significance.

Regarding actually getting past the boss fights, I also play a non-lethal character in DX, but one who also has a compulsion for collecting many kinds of high explosives. Also, Typhoon spam.

Kusa

On September 2, 2011 at 6:08 am

I started playing the game a few days ago between studying, and assignments and I must say that so far I am loving it! And as far as I can tell, my only issue is that I do hope that this game does not go the path that they went with DE 2 where no SDK was released and what you see is what you get forever… period. Because the game has the potential to be so much more and can be a game you play forever (IE DE1).

Actually I do have one issue so far, why don’t we get the pacifist rating if we turn their own turrets against them? This being that I was playing passively in hopes of being able to play it without killing any players myself. This being because I tend to enjoy tranqing people/stealth/sabotage myself as opposed to out right killing them because well, it’s more fun!

As a result; I went into the first major battle not geared for one on one combat. This being that the only augs I had on me were hacking to 3, the turret control add-on, the stealth augment (with one upgrade to it), and the social aug with pheromone add-on. And the only lethal weapons I had? A pistol (even in the original DE I carried the pistol “just in case”), the crossbow that I’d happened to pick up as part of the side quest (with one bolt in it), and the remote explosives that I thought might come in handy which I didn’t quite know how to use at the time. (lol) This being that my arsenal consisted mainly of the Stun Gun, and Tranq rifle which took up most of my inventory space.

And you know what? I had a blast! I had think on my feet using what skills *I* had to my advantage. As a result it became that frenetic cat and mouse battle. Except I was the one (frantically) running about the room hoping that I could hold the one bar of cloak (because I’d run out of the candy bars) long enough to get behind cover before he filled my butt full of lead. The pay off being that if done successfully I was then able to take a few pot shots and rinse and repeat.

Now I do admit that my use of explosives probably did help quite a bit, and I am sure that the cross bolt that I managed to hit the guy with did do something (just not sure how much damage), but I guess that is the reward for more or less being prepared to deal with anything.

All in all, so far I believe that the game has the potential to be just as great as the first and I for one am happy to hold onto this hope. Heck, maybe if an sdk is added on down the road some intrepid modder could go through and fix the bits were some (yes SOME not all!) seem to have a problem with the game.

Well there you have my two cents, take them for whatever they are worth.

Drathmar

On September 4, 2011 at 2:44 pm

All the people who are saying the boss fights are irrelevant, or make the plot worse are idiots. The boss fights further the plot, and in fact make sense with the plot. If you played through the first half hour where you see these 3 people kick your ass at the end of the intro, you should be EXPECTING boss fights with those 3 at least.

I mean the game practically tells you from the beginning you are going to be fighting them, and if you didn’t end up fighting them it would have been a huge plot hole and would have ruined the story of the game completely.

I’ve been playing through the game on the hardest difficulty and up until after the second boss had no combat upgrades. I upgraded hacking and my battery cells/recharge first, then I got the cloak field and it’s upgrades, and then the Icarus system. I wasn’t running a pacifist mode either I was running through as a corp spy/security agent, using pretty much only a fully modded 10mm pistol for everything.

Now ya, the first boss was a . It took me 3 tries to beat him with no combat upgrades at all, just sprinting and using cover and pot shots to wear him down.

The second boss was an incredibly fun fight that took me 5 tries, but it was incredibly fun. Trying to figure out how to track her, how to beat her, how to get away from the typhoon when she stopped by you, one time I even died cause somehow the floor got electrified and I have no clue how.

I eventually beat her by using my cloaking field and shooting her while cloaked until she ran. As soon as she came out of cloak, I would enter cloak, making it basically a fun cat and mouse fight.

Haven’t got to the third boss fight yet but I am betting it will be even better from what others have said.

Again, if you don’t like the boss fights, you should have put the game down after the intro as it pretty much let on they would be there.

OXO

On September 4, 2011 at 7:49 pm

“Welcome to real ing life.”

Except this isn’t real life, you dumb sack of stupid. It’s a game world that rewards me for stealth and non lethality, and then drops me in a locked room with a super soldier. Even Penny Arcade disagrees with you.

art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-jJRZhDr/0/L/i-jJRZhDr-XL.jpg

Another blind game “journalist” rant.

Circulareyestab

On September 4, 2011 at 9:59 pm

The boss battles in this game are awful and boring…they come out of nowhere with almost no background behind anyone that you encounter.

The game is far from perfect and the art is inconsistent. Looking great in some areas and just horrible in others. Some of the character models looked like they were done by straight amateurs..

I started playing this game and hating it, but the more I’ve played, the more fun it became to me. I do have to say that they are borrowing quite a bit from Metal Gears story line.. the crowd control program.. SOP.., the Illuminati nonsense…Patriots..and on and on…

And about Metal Gear Solid… In MGS2, 3 and 4, you can complete the game without killing a single individual. Not one person. Try to break those games, they are air tight.

Kusa

On September 5, 2011 at 7:58 am

Well I still must say that I disagree with the bit that they are boring, but that is just a matter of opinion I suppose. However I am curious as to how you believe that they come out of nowhere? I mean not having played as many of these type of games (never played a Metal Gear Game, or any other games that DE was said to derive it’s elements from, except for DE 1,2), and mostly sticking to MMO/multiplayer games. I could at least for the first two see the boss battles coming a mile away.

I will admit that I was unsure about what the boss battle would consist of, but it was fun nonetheless.

Further on that subject, at least from speaking with my friend it seemed that there are a couple of ways to deal with the boss. (Both still dealing with bludgeoning the guy to death) This being where I relied on cloaking and running away. My friend who more or less went the same route as myself (augmentation wise) spent the battle barraging the guy with every object he could pick up and throw.

All in all though I must say I am still appreciating the art of the game, and really haven’t noticed any inconsistencies in the art style. This may be perhaps though because I’ve not played long enough?

As for the not killing a boss thing, it would be interesting to see how that was done in DE since I never recalled having a “code” word to cause them to implode. Rather I just used the proximity explosives etc to deal with them :> And who knows, again maybe an SDK will come out in the future that allows people to add those features that they feel to be missing.

Maybe I’m just easily amused, or entertained but I am still having a quite a blast with the game.

dakan45

On September 5, 2011 at 6:28 pm

forget about that, what about the DAMN bugs? atleast npcs dont dissapear in the walls and on the air making it impossible to complete the missions.

Zork

On September 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm

Not being ready for the unexpected is the fault of the player, not the game. A Revolver with explosive rounds is more than enough to handle bosses and both the gun and ammo take up little space.

There are very few stealth based games out there that allow you to go through without a boss fight. That being said, HR is like 95% stealth and I’ve yet to kill a single baddie that wasn’t a boss.

As much as I hate to side with Jim Sterling about anything, I have to agree with him on this one. Quit your ing.

Ryan

On September 6, 2011 at 8:45 pm

I’m one of the people grumbling about the boss battles in DE:HR, but I consider them to be a smudge on what is an otherwise stunningly polished game. Basically my whole gripe about the boss battles boils down to this; not that they’re included in the game at all, but rather that there is one way and one way only to kill them, and that is bullet-spamming. It is the least imaginative way to set up a boss fight, and really sticks out like a sore thumb in a game that encourages you to come up with your own solutions to problems. The original Deus Ex allowed you to evade some fights, or if you were really OCD about hacking every terminal you could find, you could find Kill Phrases to use on augmented agents, which gave a way for sneak/tech characters to advance without having to suddenly be an expert marksman too.

For example, the second boss fight in DE:HR features a machine pistol wielding killer with a cloaking device. This encounter WAS really tense for me for about the first thirty seconds. I ran off to find cover and examine my options. I hadn’t invested in a cloaking device myself, so I couldn’t hide from her. But I HAD invested in vision augs, so I popped that on and could see her stalking around, clear as day. The hunted had become the hunter, or so I thought. I wanted to end this quick, so I slunk around a bit until she lost track of me and was very obviously searching while in stealth mode. I painstakingly crept up to her and attempted to pop the chisel arms…only to have the attack blocked. It really took me out of the moment, as I realized the game was essentially telling me “No, get your gun back out, you’ve got to do this in the most annoying way possible.” This despite the fact that I had earned the kill by using resources available to me.

For the third boss fight, I whipped out the grenade launcher I’d saved for that occasion and dispassionately fired four grenades into his face. If the game was going to require me to kill him with no finesse, I had no intention of spending a whole lot of time doing it. And there lies the crux of the boss fight problem for me; I knew my options were artificially limited in this one sequence, it broke the fourth wall, and I stopped caring. A game designer might seek to invoke all kinds of emotions or thought responses in their audience…but I’m damn sure indifference isn’t one of them.

Ryan

On September 6, 2011 at 9:04 pm

@Zork

Ah, yes…very eloquently stated. ‘Quit your ing.’ Heaven forbid anyone voice any critique of a product, or any facet of a game they would like to see done better next time. What in the blazes was I thinking when I decided to think?

Ed RM

On September 6, 2011 at 9:28 pm

QUOTE: “I’m curious what faults warrant classifying a game as “not a keeper.””

Perhaps the bland, dull, unispired writing, that is nowhere as good or thought provoking as the orignal?

Good writing never gets old.

QUOTE: “I work and just don’t have enough time to go back for nostalgia purpose to replay old traditional games.”

Then you never watch again movies you like when they are “old and traditional”?

Really, this “nostalgia” talk seems to be the rage lately. Deus Ex 1 has nohing of traditional for its time, and even today. HR is no more innovative or creative than DX1 ever was, it only has today’s graphics and a few “modern sensibilities” tackled onto it (I’m looking at you, forced 3rd person cover). Overall… HR does nothing DX1 already didn’t, so I suppose you think HR is “traditional” as well…

I work too (surprisingly! :D ), but quantity is not quality, not even in entertainment. I’d reather play again a great game which I like but is old, then to waste too time on some “modern” hyped. overrated, game.

Matthew

On September 6, 2011 at 9:52 pm

I think anyone who didn’t at least expect one set piece confrontation is naive. People who claim the boss fights were “unexpected” or “out of no where” weren’t picking up on the not very subtle exclamations throughout the game. Like the Highland Park level during the cutscene where Barret talks about the botched morgue op, Jensen tells the pilot that the mercs who attacked Megan are here and that he’s “going after them” Any smart gamer should have at least realized that their advanced augs and even their size made them a threat and assumed at that point a Barret confrontation was likely and shouldn’t have assumed that a way around him was going to be handed to you. Any who assumed that you would be given a way around Barret like who were with Sanders is naive to assume that the rest of the game would be like that with the people who almost killed Jensen. Either way the first boss fight established that combat in one form or another would be expected of you. People chose not to adapt which is ironic considering the theme of the game.
The player who dumped Praxis points into stealth and hacking when you can clearly see defense and combat augs in the tree could have deduced that maybe a former SWAT officer wasn’t a former SWAT officer for the heck of it. They pursued what they thought would be the easiest and most rewarding. And now they’re complaining that the easy way out didn’t work out. The game is Deus Ex and it should allow you to build your character how you see fit. Allowing that kind of freedom would be empty if the consequences of your myoptia weren’t brought home to the player. The more balanced player should be rewarded, the ones who took a rigid approach should struggle. With a game about how we adapt and how we choose to accept it I couldn’t think of a better dynamic to exist within the confines of this game. Those who adapt will have an embarrasment of riches those who don’t will just be embarassed.

Chris

On September 7, 2011 at 4:32 am

Just finished my first playthrough on Hardest Difficulty (deus ex 1 junkie). I have to say the bosses were a big let down. I have to add i always had a rocket/grenade launcher in my inventory. Constant fire from them killed the bosses really easy. Even the long reload on the rocket launcher was mitigated by the stun animation. I had a harder time doing takedowns on patrols, it was not even funny.

Bosses Suck

On September 7, 2011 at 1:35 pm

Yes problem. Boss battles are a complete waste of time, they break the flow of the game, feel unnatural and suck when you’ve built up a stealth/hacker character.

Eder RM

On September 7, 2011 at 2:13 pm

QUOTE: “(…) the fact that people literally run past Simons in area 51 and then claim that the game was so well designed that you can avoid killing this ‘final’ boss are deluding themselves.”

Not at all. A bunch of people even today seems surprised that you can avoid killing Simons in the Ocean Labs, and if they do, he will appear again in Area 51. And since he is avoidable the first time, it is not s stretch or a leap of faith to imagine that the developers actually thought the player could avoid him a second time. ;)

Personally. I find surprising all these people defending boss fights in a NEW game. Nostalgia from games from the 80′s, perhaps? :D

QUOTE: “They pursued what they thought would be the easiest and most rewarding. And now they’re complaining that the easy way out didn’t work out”.

But the whole REST of the game works the other way around. The game DOES reward you for being stealhthy and non lethal (or “easier”, if you want), you gain MORE XP this way.

Then come the bosses and the game says: “Forget non lethal or any alternative path, this is a straightforward BATTLE with only one outcome”. :(

Matthew

On September 8, 2011 at 12:41 am

And you got a whole REST of the game to be non-lethal. The game puts you in a position where that isn’t an option a few times and people whine about it. It doesn’t reward you for that a few times and people whine again. Why bother incorporating any FPS elements into the game at all if the game is like that? The developers chose to have direct contact with the bosses be what advanced the game’s plot. Defending boss battles has nothing to do with it. Jensen had a vested interest in confronting the Mercs. JC had none when it came to Anna, Gunther, and Simons.
Qoute: And since he is avoidable the first time, it is not s stretch or a leap of faith to imagine that the developers actually thought the player could avoid him a second time. True but a player would be just as right to assume that a final confrontation was being set up. DE:HR had to include something to make it a FPS, it chose forced boss battles. It still gave you tatical freedom within the fight to kill him how you wanted. If if forced you to use a specific weapon, or aug, or explosive then I’d be whining too. But the way the game is I have no sympathy for people who built their characters to be inflexible.

deusfun

On September 8, 2011 at 6:46 pm

OK guys, here’s the deal. Some of us were completely surprised by the first Boss fight and thus were unprepared. Like many, I was not equipped to take him on and had to take him out with a sniper rifle and no augs to keep it steady. It made killing Barett very difficult. Same for the third Boss fight when your new chip strips all your hard earned augs away from you. I had to take him out with gas. But…..

Once you know about the Boss Fights you can beat them in no time flat, and I mean under ten seconds each, with the typhoon. Barett– throw two EMP gernades, charge, and typhoon. With the lady, just stand there and wait for her to come to you and typhoon. You literally don’t have to move. And with the last Boss man, charge straight ahead while he’s picking up his plasma gun and typhoon him. Even on the “Deus Ex” difficulty you can kill them in seconds flat, no problem at all.

Dave Jackson

On September 8, 2011 at 8:14 pm

I have to say that the best story, best empotional journey of an game I have played in 2011 has to be Isaac Clarke’s slow, inevitable break down in Dead Space 2.

JC

On September 9, 2011 at 11:09 am

The story/game is insanely predictable, since it pretty much follows the rough outline of the original. The three boss encounters all have analogs in the original. The big brute, the killer chick, the ultra-aug, and the [REDACTED].

That said, the writing is a hell of a lot better than some other stuff I’ve seen lately, and the gameplay makes up for any short-comings.

The bosses can’t LITERALLY be sidestepped, but the boss rooms themselves give you all the tools to either go head to head, or to slink around and do things the easy/fast way.

Even without abusing Typhoon (haven’t taken it on either of my playthroughs) Barret can be beaten, on Hard mode, with a character carrying nothing but a stun gun. You let him approach into range, then quickly stun him. You run to an explosive barrel/chemical barrel. You chuck it at the back of his head. Repeat. When he gets out of his animation/stun lock, you stun him again. Repeat. The only comical part is when you deliver the final hit with the stun gun, because his animation still reacts as though he just got shot. Of course, maybe it makes sense if the stun charge overloaded some system that then failed catastrophically, doing damage to the surrounding tissues. This “kill” was just a test, as it didn’t fit with the mindset I had for my second playthrough, so I reloaded and did it the fun way.

For the second boss, the “mines on the machinery that electrify the map” approach still works great. With a the jump aug, you don’t even need to have the emp shielding to survive.

I haven’t gotten back to third guy on this palythrough yet, but I’m pretty sure my normal strategy of rock/paper/scissors/fully modified explosive revolver will still work like a charm.

I buffed Jensen’s health up to 150 before the Barrett fight, expecting trouble, and to the point in the game where I am now, it has only fallen to 136. The bosses are a complete non-issue.

“Then why put them in at all if you can just cheap through them in nothing flat?” Well, I’ve seen posts from some people that talk about how much they enjoyed the experience, how it was a fun game of cat and mouse, how they had to come up with a strategy to deal with it… all of the above. They clearly got something out of it. I, who didn’t particularly care about boss fights, was able to deal with them in the most expedient ways available to me and never felt they changed the flow of the game.

Then again, I was playing the game as playing a role (especially the second time when I wasn’t concerned about pacifist achievements). Faced with the squad responsible for my previous death, subsequent butchering and augmentation (if indirectly), and the (presumed) death of someone close to me, my first thought on encountering any of those responsible wouldn’t be “Gee, I hope I can sneak out of this without having to interact with them!” It would be “Come on, mother[redacted], let’s go!”

Herws

On September 10, 2011 at 5:51 am

I stopped playing the game at the cloak lady boss. I arrived with totally crap weapons and skilled totally for hacking and being unseen. Dont wanna be annoyed from a video game.

JC

On September 10, 2011 at 10:06 am

Hey Herws, it is called “check out your surroundings.” All you need to beat her is in the boss room. Open a locker for a couple of mines, set them strategically, avoid taking electrified floor damage yourself and guess what? Progress. It is pretty clear the developers knew that some people would get to the boss battles and be under equipped for them. I think it was cheap on their part not to allow melee takedowns (especially if you’ve invested in advanced reflexes which should put your augs ahead of the enemy augs, since yours would be bleeding edge anyway), but they went out of their way to throw just about everything you need to tackle the bosses in at least two or three different ways. If they did any more hand holding in the boss encounters, they’d probably have had to make them QTE cutscenes, and lets face it – NOBODY in their right mind would want that!

Although… thinking about it, maybe an oncsreen button press combo that allowed you to melee takedown the bosses would have been a better option. A lot of people would probably still be complaining about the inclusion of said mechanic, but at least they could have gotten past the bosses, what with the game explicitly telling them everything they need to progress.

Oh well.

Bosses Suck

On September 11, 2011 at 7:22 am

What’s worse, expressing a personal opinion on the boss levels or whining about people expressing their opinion?

Matthew?

Matthew

On September 11, 2011 at 4:50 pm

@Bosses Suck When their opinion is the boss fights were “unexpected” or it breaks up the game their personal opinion is misinformed. It clearly set up a confrontation between Adam and the Mercs. It breaks up a stealth play through and then they act as if thats the only way it can be played. Its the only way they played it, don’t act as if thats the way all gamers played the game. At least my “whining” is informed, there’s is biased, and ultimately selfish.

Obvious

On September 11, 2011 at 5:47 pm

The fights in this game are stupid, shooting someone 100x in the face with an assault rifle is not deus ex. Sure they may be augmented but this game is about politics, ideals, and factions and other machiavellian concepts.

Concepts and Ideas hold power, not individuals. Thats why you can kill everyone easily. Thats why u get to make choices.

MGS isnt anything like Deus Ex aside from being spy games with some politics.

And if you dont get that if you get an apple, then a banana, then a hamster you would think the hamster is out of place. I only came across this looking for the first boss battle solution cuz after unloading 100 bullets into the guys face I am so thrown off from the 1 shot headshot in ALL of every Deus Ex game.

JC

On September 11, 2011 at 6:39 pm

When people hit a sticking point, why is the internet the first place they turn? Why not try out different things in their surroundings? If a straight up “unload 100 bullets in a guy’s face” doesn’t work, try something else!

Games are getting short enough (the majority of them at least) these days that it almost feels criminal to further truncate the experience by simply begging at the digital altar for a solution to every sticking point.

I would agree that MGS and the original Deus Ex were completely different, albeit sharing a few common threads (one of which was NOT gameplay). From my first couple of hours with Human Revolution, and my position was only strengthened after completing it the first time, I always said that it felt like it was about 70% Deus Ex, 25% Metal Gear Solid, and 5% other. If I were to adjust for the prevalence of cover based shooting, it would probably break down to 50% Deus Ex, 28% Metal Gear Solid, and 22% other.

In my first comment, I mentioned being a little surprised by the first boss, but once I moved on in the game, the boss encounters didn’t bother me at all, because they fit into the context of the game.

The cloaking/claymore boss was probably the most fun for me, but the third boss is the one that actually made me feel sorry for him.

Mild Spoilers -

By the time Jensen gets his revenge, it is pointless. Worse still, the enemy that was able to kill him in all of about three seconds in the prologue, was a complete non-threat at the end. Even while coping with problems with my [Redacted], the boss was an easy kill. I didn’t get that vicarious adrenaline surge like I did with the first two of “You are gonna pay!” when the fight started. It was more like “I have no reason to kill you anymore, but you’re trying to kill me, so I’m going to have to stop you. We’re both puppets at this point. One of us is about to get their strings cut.”

Also, in a way they still give you choice regarding the bosses and whether or not you want to fight them. It is called Hobson’s choice.

latetoparty

On October 13, 2011 at 5:03 am

@JC When people hit a sticking point, why is the internet the first place they turn? Why not try out different things in their surroundings?

Because boss fights are frustrating waste of time while the rest of the game is a great enjoyable experience. If I google out how to pass through boss fight, I’m going to be done with it faster. So I can enjoy the rest of the game and forget it was ever there.

Deus Ex Pacifist

On October 16, 2011 at 11:46 am

Just completed defeating Barret. Attempting a pacifist route, ended up defeating him with a stun gun while cloaked (pretty lucky with my mod choices it seems).

Ended up playing the first game years ago in a similar way. Although, initially, on the first missions I killed all the terrorists: at the time I think I was pretty naive i.e. terrorists -> bad -> kill on sight. Then after being reprimanded by Paul I began to question such logic.

As a result, I will have to admit I like obsessing over the non lethal approach to the point of almost constant reload. What I love about the game how I can almost play by importing an ethical code (based on how I might act in such a world). I’ve invented self-imposed rules such as: no killing; only hack a terminal if the owner is (or appears to be) on the wrong side of justice; only knockout guards if neutralizing them if part of the objective, otherwise, remain a ghost/smooth operator. Also, I like how I might question such codes whilst playing and my code might ‘evolve’. For example, at first I wanted to do everything ‘by the book’ so I was originally stuck at Sarif for asking me to perform the break in. But after hearing his defense – essentially that it was his only option – I agreed: if the system is corrupt, carry out justice and then try and fix it if I can.

The impression of ‘my’ Adam is that he is a man of integrity, hence I think the code for the character I’ve developed fits quite nicely into my imaginative world. But I suppose there is a conflict between my mental image of Adam and the writers in the ‘no killing aspect’. His quest for the death of those responsible for the first attack seems, to me, out of character given his “integrity” (well I suppose they were over 15 and he was in SWAT so please forgive me for overlooking that).

The decisions that I really enjoyed so far:

The opportunity to knockout Zerke and put him behind bars.
Use stealth inside the police station rather than persuading Adam’s former SWAT partner as I didn’t want to risk implicating him. I was disappointed I missed out on the bonding session as a result (wanted to talk to him without strings attached so to speak)
Putting the security techie in touch with the company to provide drugs to the needy.

I think the problem might stem from the fact the events that occurred at the beginning of the game happened without illustrating his character and his relationships (from memory I thought that the first game built up a good feeling of family in UNATO so any unavoidable deaths within the organization were tragic at the very least). In this game, Megan came across to me as a scientist with a pretty face who I was apparently in love who was immediately burnt to cinders. Therefore, I haven’t really developed any empathy with his love and his thirst for death. For the latter, perhaps being British has something to do with it. However, I latched onto his idea of integrity. I’ve built up a mental image that he is an ex-cop that believes in justice of the system but isn’t afraid to do what he thinks is right. From a quick internet search it seems that Detroit has no death penalty like Britain so perhaps that make the context for killing the bosses shakier. On the other hand, I suppose SWAT officers shoot to kill if necessary (same with SO19 in Britain I imagine. But is it necessary? (Assuming I ignore the fact that it is the only choice in the game ;p)

All in all, I’m disappointed there’s no non-lethal approach to defeating Barret (hope my take at least makes some sense). Although it was pretty funny causing all that damage with a stun gun. Does the same occur with a tranquilizer darts fired to his head? I would’ve thought that was a viable non-lethal choice in the context of the game. I’ll have to redo the game to check that out! But I still love the game: now back to grilling Sarif about the security leak!

Simbosan

On October 16, 2011 at 11:19 pm

No, the barret bossfight is ed in the head because up to that point you have been suckered into putting points into hacking. The game up to that point is a hack/stealth game, and it works very well.

Then another boring ing boss fight where the only way to win is to have gone offensive build.

bossfights, the idea that serial load/die/load/die time and time again is FUN.

Dirschau

On October 28, 2011 at 2:03 pm

“Welcome to real ing life.”

In this article – author doesn’t know the difference bewtween REAL ING LIFE and a GAME.

Dirschau

On October 28, 2011 at 2:03 pm

“Welcome to real ing life.”

In this article – author doesn’t know the difference between REAL ING LIFE and a GAME.

Roland Hesz

On October 29, 2011 at 5:19 am

“One can choose to undertake almost every mission without lethally dispatching an enemy, but there are a few moments where the player doesn’t have a choice. Welcome to real ing life. Sometimes we don’t have a choice, and I’d say that when an enemy starts a fight to the death, one doesn’t really have to worry about tainting poor Adam’s soul by having him kill the jackass. ”

If we come up with this “real ing life” argument, then lets agree on that that in the “real ing life” a sneaking around guy will NOT walk into the middle of the room like you are forced to in the game with the first boss.

The “real ing life” argument falls apart right there. Just saying.

Angerosa

On November 3, 2011 at 4:51 am

I have to say I love this game. On one hand it feels like a bad rip off of the first but on the other hand even a bad rip off is ing brilliant. But despite my love for the game I can not ignore the how the boss battles are in the context of the game.

DX is a game about options and consequences and I play it that way. The hostages from the first mission died because I was jumping around around in the ladies bathroom. I accept they died, it was my fault for messing around in the bathroom. The bosses died because I was forced into an inescapable room and the only way to progress was to view their death animations. This is stupid.

To all those people that are saying people just hated the boss battles because they weren’t prepared and didn’t see it coming; that’s where one of my biggest gripes comes in. I could see the first boss battle coming for the whole mission(and to an extent, the game since the obvious looking menaces shot the place up). I knew when I entered the cafeteria/barracks was about to go down so I began looking for ammo for my stun gun and gave myself the reflex booster ready to stun and then knock them out (I assumed he would take more than a normal human because they were bosses). I then entered the next room with the obvious precursor flickering lights highlighting the oncoming battle and when I got to the end of the room with no fight I was actually happy. Maybe this room had a vent or a computer to hack attached to turrets or something similar so I wouldn’t have to even fight head on. But no, it was just a hallway.

Then I got to the closed room and and had a choice of picking up some guns from a ty alcove or throwing barrels at the bullet sponge.

And for those that say he is a security specialist and he should be played that way; then why give me any ing choices? Just make the whole game a series of linear boss battles! (It could be a good game but it wouldn’t be DX)

The augs aren’t the game, you aren’t meant to win or lose by them. They are meant to modify the rules of the game, giving you new conditions to win or lose by.

Also, if it was a game of “real ing life”, Adam would be busy filling out paperwork! This is a game and it amazes me that a person picks the line “real ing life” to justify the least realistic parts of a game in an already unrealistic game.

Sorry if this was written poorly but I was just venting out of my overall love for the game, I still stand by my points.

Shizz

On December 3, 2011 at 10:45 pm

OK, anyone who seriously had problems with the bosses cause they chose the ‘wrong’ augs must suck worse then my 10 year old cousin.
You don’t need augs to win those battles you need to THINK. I can understand being frustrated by the loading time after dying to a boss but really you can’t get past these bosses? seriously? How could you not see them coming? Is the new generation of gamers seriously this deluded?

I played a stealth build on the hardest difficulty, and yeah I died more then a few times, but when i finally beat it with the tools I had it was rewarding. The scenery for the 2nd and 3rd boss fights were amazing and tense, although I wish the characters had been included more then from the info you hear from conversations and e-mails.

My only real complaint is the last boss was too easy. I’d love to see these kids play through some mega-man/ninja gaiden.

deuce! sex...

On December 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm

all told, this was a letdown…the ambience was a let down…eg detroit roits…where were they? i imagined having to defend or run from crowds with actual side effects but this game is essentially linear and the world is full of dead, retarded zombies brought to life with animation…crap fmvs, they did one good trailer and the rest was in ’o'vision. the story was wasted mostly and left much unexplored, side missions are too few and arent particularly rewarding, (why are sewers the same all over the world?) the boss fights were so easy and total antclimaxes in drama, so many ways to win in no time at all and once again, they ruined their own expectations, just dumb opponents that hold no secrets or interest apart from their design, which really says it all…HTH combat…is VIDEO CLIPS? . YOU. EIDOS. no depth(apart from setting up DTDs) and the game has no replay value unless you deliberately miss stuff and play badly. THIS GAME IS UNFINISHED!

Cody

On December 30, 2011 at 12:12 pm

I had trouble with the first boss as well. At first I was confused on where I should go, when I got shot up due to having only steath augments. On my second try, I was a little more familiar with the room, and I attempted to do a takedown: absolutely STUPID move. Third try, ran around a bit, used an EMP and a few frag grenades on him but got trapped between his three grenades. Couple more tries later, I tried a run-and-gun strategy (luckily, I always keep a few lethal weapons on me just in case), and eventually it worked. My only real complaint here isn’t that I was forced to kill him, but that I had no clue at all to the engagement beforehand. After I memorized his attack patterns it became pretty simple, even with stealth augmentations, but it really just slows down gameplay.
Hopefully future boss battles will be more fluid.

Slacks

On January 1, 2012 at 8:51 am

It’s not that the game has bosses that’s the problem, it’s that if you’ve pursued a stealth strategy the boss battles become incredibly annoying and tedious.

So despite the alleged open-ended way you can develop your character, in reality you are strongly encouraged to arm yourself with lethal weaponry and at least a few combat-related augs, even if that’s not how you want to roll.

Still a damned good game though!

watcher

On January 2, 2012 at 5:42 pm

total knob head, typically missed the point of the game.. it has now become just another “shoot ‘em up”. the only important thing is to get to the boss fight.. blah! blah! blah! there are millions of boss shoot them ups out there if anyone wants boss shooters, Deus ex was all about secret organisations, hidden agendas, covert ops.. I have played deus ex since it was conceived, the second cos the first was brilliant, now this.. thought it was going to be great, but no! just another blah blah blah yawn!! what a let down, bosses just bog down the gameplay, get in the way of a great story..its the same with everything, play to the masses feed them diretripe.

ebenvios

On January 8, 2012 at 5:59 am

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Marc

On February 27, 2012 at 4:52 pm

On the subject of the Deus Ex Human Revolution boss fights – they’re a bloody stupid and lazy way to do an “end of chapter challenge”.

Boss fights are the domain of, well, FIGHTING games. The end of chapter challenge is meant to be a final exam of what you’ve learned so far. NOT a complete, out of context non-sequitur that punishes people who have no previous knowledge of what’s coming up. It’s also a way to punish people for not having twitch gaming skills they KNOW they don’t have, which is why they bought a game that advertised itself as NOT NEEDING THEM. If I wanted to play a twitch game (involving massive reflexes and excellent combat skills), I’d get something else. This game was great until the boss fight, then it became, well, impossible for me.

Deus Ex (1) had workarounds for those who didn’t have the one-on-one combat skills. You could get the kill phrases with enough exploration, and that was the alternate solution. The DEHR end of chapter challenge don’t HAVE any alternatives – you either have the fighting skills that the rest of the game doesn’t require, or you get ed over and waste your money on a game because you can’t get by the end of the boss fight. I finished the first one by luck – he blew himself up with the barrels lying around. No such aid available in the 2nd one. Massively annoyed, all because Eidos LIED about the whole “different game”, and “providing alternatives” bit.

THAT’S why people like me are STILL livid about the crappy end of chapter challenges they provided. Because they ended up catering to ONE market, the SAME market that damn near every other game caters to, namely the folks who have the reflexes and skills to be good in one-on-one death cage matches with ogres who have unlimited ammo.

Yes, I suck at such skills. Which is why I don’t buy games that require such skills. Or at least, I thought I was. Deus Ex was great. Thief was great. Deus Ex Human Revolution was billed as their natural successor. This was the equivalent of Eidos spitting on the kind of player that not only really enjoys sneak games, but for various reasons can’t or won’t play the twitch games.

Not providing alternative solutions to the boss fights in Deus Ex Human Revolution other than one-on-one combat was one of the worst decisions I’ve seen a design team make about a game. Especially after all the marketing they did convincing people like me that this game WOULD give the user some choice in that matter.

Marc

On February 27, 2012 at 4:55 pm

That said, anyone know of any cheats/hacks/god modes that allow me to finish the boss fights and move on with the ACTUAL game? I’ll even give up the XP that comes from said fight if I can just SKIP the damn thing. Because until I find something like that, there is no way in hell I’m going to be able to finish that game, and that has me beyond annoyed into livid.

Marc

On February 27, 2012 at 5:12 pm

And in answer to my question, I have just discovered this wonderful gamesaving (to me) tool: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=121245

Judicious use just to complete the boss shows that it works as specified. Now I can actually play Deus Ex Human Revolution to completion, and ignore what I call the fatal bug in their program – the lack of alternate solutions to the “boss fight” (what a horrible, antique term that is!) problem.

MirceaDogaru

On March 7, 2012 at 4:39 pm

The author of the article asked what the problem is with having forced encounters where the only way out is a head-on fight. The problem is if throughout the entire game you develop your character the stealth way (stealth gen, run silent, hacking, reflex, etc etc). You get to a boss and unless you’re on easy and are very very lucky you don’t stand a chance of taking him out. And that ruins an otherwise perfect game. Too bad.

Alex Ponebshek

On August 22, 2013 at 4:52 am

You can actually get Anna Navarre to low health and trick her into opening the exit door while fleeing from you. Just FYI.
It’s perfectly fair to say that the player is not expected to do this. But that’s kind of the point… Deus Ex did not (as far as I am aware) have a specific design goal of allowing entirely non-lethal play. Rather, it had an overall philosophy of giving you many-faceted situations and a load of assorted tools, rather than having the developers pre-choreograph how the fights should play out and then lay out the maps accordingly.
Either way, nonlethality is a red herring here. The real thing that makes these boss fights not feel like part of a spiritual successor to the original work is that you can’t take any kind of a stealth approach. This nintendo meat-tank style of boss just doesn’t fit the genre of a stealth shooter.
You can cloak, sneak up to Navarre, and blast her in the face, for example… or just take her or any other enemy in the entire game with a LAW you’ve been saving, if it’s a worthy target. You don’t have to dance while you whittle down the health bar that appears at the top of your screen. She’s still a “boss fight” but at least she’s not un-asked for comic relief from an otherwise immersive game.