Posted on December 5, 2007,

Original Halo Trailer

The above video is the original trailer for the first Halo. If you are like me, you have already downloaded Halo on the Microsoft marketplace. For 1200 MS points, it’s not a bad buy. November 15, 2001 seems like such a long time ago, but it’s a great feeling to go back and relive the moments that sold me on the series. Xbox Originals was introduced yesterday on the Xbox 360 as a way to download titles from the original Xbox. We’ve had a ton of fun finishing the fight with Halo 3, but now is a great chance to go back and start the fight all over again.

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35 Comments on Original Halo Trailer

THELORD

On December 5, 2007 at 7:21 am

wow, that’s a cool trailer for halo 3……wait, you said halo the first? oh, sorry, they both look the same, i got confused.

Fenris

On December 5, 2007 at 8:23 am

Halo was fun, but hugely flawed. Endless long hallways that look exactly the same, come on. The Multiplayer was fun, but H3 is better. This is not worth the price. Crimson Skies on the other hand has far more value, especially since nothing in the 360 library matches its multiplayer dog fights.

Shawn Sines

On December 5, 2007 at 8:41 am

Am I the only person who still has these games and does not see the point of buying games that are already backwards compatible?

What Halo fan does not have Halo, Halo 2 and the map pack on disk already? Who is the market here? People who never owned an Xbox? Also it is often cheaper to find these games in the junk bin at Gamestop than the Microsoft points.

Joelteon7

On December 5, 2007 at 8:52 am

Whilst I don’t own Halo 2 and own 1 on the PC, I feel no compelling to buy the game on live. As Shawn says, what’s the point when it can be picked up cheaper and a hard (so better) copy? The only one of the lot released so far that interests me is Pscyhonauts, purely because I’ve seen it about 3 times in as many years.

used cisco

On December 5, 2007 at 9:15 am

@shawn,

“What Halo fan does not have Halo, Halo 2 and the map pack on disk already? Who is the market here?”

As crazy as it sounds, there ARE people buying the 360 who never owned an xbox.
New gamers enter the hobby every year, who never owned a console before. Not every gamer is 30 years old and got their start on the NES having played every major game in the last 20 years.

Anyway, with regard to this post, I STILL think Halo 1 was the best of the series, hand down.

Daniel

On December 5, 2007 at 9:20 am

Let the record show that I never owned an Xbox or the original Halo.

Phil Migrowen

On December 5, 2007 at 10:21 am

It looks like Shawn beat me to my response, so I will just address this comment:

“As crazy as it sounds, there ARE people buying the 360 who never owned an xbox.”

Shawn’s second point still stands though. The original Halo for the XBOX is ubiquitous. You can find a copy of that game in just about every game shop, pawn shop, and garage sale in America. You would have to be incredibly lazy or in an incredibly isolated location to not go out and buy a physical copy of the game instead of paying Microsoft’s excessive price to download it.

TommyBoy

On December 5, 2007 at 11:12 am

seems Microsoft reviewed their advertising since Halo, i mean now they dont use in game footage, because they know it makes the game look bargain bin worthy!

Shawn Sines

On December 5, 2007 at 11:19 am

@cisco: I admit that is true, not everyone has or owned an original Xbox… but I can take my physical copy of Halo with me to anyone’s house.. the digital download is inferior from a user standpoint as it is tied to my hard drive of my 360 – and that is yet another failing of the digital content distribution currently – I can’t just download it over at Bobby’s house when I visit. Let Alone if my hard drive dies.. I believe Microsoft still says its a one download per customer system – regardless of hardware upgrades or gamer profile mobility – they can;t inflict that on my physical copy.

used cisco

On December 5, 2007 at 12:09 pm

I’m not addressing the benefits or drawbacks of MS’ digital distribution model, simply the fact that there are a lot of people out there who never played Halo, or owned an original XBOX.

And Phil, I would argue that Halo is not ubiquitous. Many gamers don’t ever buy a used game (off ebay or wherever) and many parts of the country don’t even HAVE a gamestop or EB. Your only option is stores like Target and Walmart. Its hard to believe but its true.
I don’t mean any offense, but people really need to learn to see outside their personal experiences more.

Phil Migrowen

On December 5, 2007 at 12:44 pm

“And Phil, I would argue that Halo is not ubiquitous.”

You’d be wrong. You’d be hard pressed to find an owner of an original XBOX who didn’t also have a copy of the game which means there are millions of copies of the game in circulation.

“and many parts of the country don’t even HAVE a gamestop or EB. Your only option is stores like Target and Walmart. Its hard to believe but its true.”

It’s hard to believe because it’s bull. Gamestop/EB is almost everywhere in the U.S., and even in places where it doesn’t have a location, there are independent game shops, video stores, and pawn shops which have Halo. You’d have to be in a pretty remote location to not be able to find a copy of Halo within a reasonable driving distance of your home even if you stuck to just brick and mortar shops to look for a copy.

William

On December 5, 2007 at 2:11 pm

I actually traded in my original Halo and felt like it was time to play it again. I don’t think this will sell as strong as other titles, but there is a market for it.

I realize I could pick up a copy for a couple bucks, but I paid for the convenience of not having to load a disc.

talondesigns

On December 5, 2007 at 2:28 pm

O please :!:

Have you played Halo 3 mister THELORD?
N – O.

And guess what, I did — and to tell you what — Halo 3 looks better than you could ever fathom in your narrow and square mind with locked up darkening corners…

You are either a ps3 fanboy or just one more person who ridicules great things out of assumption and foolishness or simply jealous instinct for pointless ridiculing…

So enough: will you just stop assuming and start thinking/playing/knowing the truth… :roll: :roll:

used cisco

On December 5, 2007 at 8:43 pm

“You’d be wrong. You’d be hard pressed to find an owner of an original XBOX who didn’t also have a copy of the game”

Um, nope. Halo sold what, about 6 million copies? The xbox sold what, about 25 million systems? That means 76 percent of xbox owners didn’t own Halo. Sorry, but you should do a little more research so you don’t sound ignorant.

When 76 percent of the console owners dont own a game, its hardly considered ubiquitous.

And I know plenty of people with xbox’s who didn’t own Halo.

“It’s hard to believe because it’s bull. Gamestop/EB is almost everywhere in the U.S.”

Again, your ignorance is showing. I have family and friends all over the rural midwest and none of them have easy access to a gamestop or used game store. I even went on gamestops store locator and there are no locations within 50 miles. Most of them have never bought a used game and do any game related shopping at big chain stores like Target or Walmart. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, so save us the trouble please.

This isn’t that important so I can’t imagine your motivation in making up information that so obviously false.

I’ll say it again for the cheap seats.

I don’t mean any offense, but people really need to learn to see outside their personal experiences more.

Phil Migrowen

On December 7, 2007 at 12:32 pm

“Um, nope. Halo sold what, about 6 million copies? The xbox sold what, about 25 million systems? That means 76 percent of xbox owners didn’t own Halo. Sorry, but you should do a little more research so you don’t sound ignorant.”

Sorry, you should do some actual research instead of pulling numbers out of your ass. Quote your sources if you think those numbers are correct.

“I have family and friends all over the rural midwest and none of them have easy access to a gamestop or used game store.”

Reply to the entirety of what I actually wrote instead of truncating it to give the false appearance that you are correct. I seriously doubt that there is not a single independent game shop, video store, or pawn shop within driving of their locations which has Halo if there are no Gamestop or EB stores. I am calling your bluff, post some zip codes of these rural locations.

THELORD

On December 7, 2007 at 12:58 pm

@talondesigns, geez your pretty antzy and angry over my sarcastic comment, it’s ok, run with your assumptions and base your opinions off them. just makes you look like more the fanboy,

I WAS BEING SARCASTIC, what’s l33t speak for sarcasm? i don’t know, sorry, I was merely playing the devils advocate to see what kind of brain dead fanboy moron would take my bait, and you did, congrats, heres a trophy for not thinking anything through and being a complete failure.

“So enough: will you just stop assuming and start thinking/playing/knowing the truth… ” I like this comment from you, it’s funny, because it more so applys to you, not me, ROFL, LOL, LMAO,

Phil Migrowen

On December 7, 2007 at 1:04 pm

“Halo sold what, about 6 million copies? The xbox sold what, about 25 million systems?”

No on both counts. It’s obvious you lazily pulled those numbers from Wikipedia, and they are wrong when you look at the source material for them. The Halo sales figure is derived from a Bungie website post about Halo 2 in 2005, and it’s just a generalized Halo sales statement without attribution. More importantly the supposed XBOX sales figure in Wikipedia comes from a news post on XBOX.COM about the XBOX 360, and it includes XBOX 360 sales as well. Therefore that figure definitely doesn’t represent only original XBOX sales.

Definitive figures on the total sales to date of both Halo and the original XBOX are basically impossible to find publicly, but from various released data snapshots since 2001 I estimate that Halo sales are at least 50% of XBOX sales. Whether or not that qualifies as “ubiquitous” is an argument over semantics. Regardless that makes Halo pretty damn common, and as I wrote above finding a physical copy for sale is not hard.

used cisco

On December 8, 2007 at 8:43 pm

@Phil,

Who’s lazy? Funny you mention Wikipedia. I didn’t even go there. But now that you mention it, I will. It states that Halo sold FIVE million copies by late 2005, cited from Bungie. If that number is accurate, 6 million lifetime sounds pretty reasonable, and is backed up by several sources, including VGchartz, which while not gospel is most likely within 10 percent. If you don’t like those numbers, I’d love to seem some statistical evidence that it sold another SEVEN million units from late 2005 to late 2007, you know, because the idea that it would DOUBLE its sales numbers AFTER the 360 launched makes a TON of sense. Because thats what would have to happen for it to reach even close to 50% attachment. The more you say, the more ignorant you appear. Which is comically enjoyable I must admit, but still a bit of a waste of time.

And I never argued that Halo isn’t “pretty damned common”. I argued that its not UBIQUITOUS and that there are PLENTY of gamers who never owned it, and that there are PLENTY of 360 owners who never owned an xbox AT ALL. All are completely, and provably true.

Phil Migrowen

On December 9, 2007 at 11:10 am

“Funny you mention Wikipedia. I didn’t even go there.”

So you just pulled those exact same inaccurate figures out of your ass? Either way you are wrong.

“It states that Halo sold FIVE million copies by late 2005, cited from Bungie.”

As I wrote above, that cite is old and not very specific with no attribution.

“If that number is accurate”

It isn’t.

“6 million lifetime sounds pretty reasonable”

No, it doesn’t. Even in 2004 after Halo 2 hit the market Halo still sold well over 1 million copies. The total copies sold to date is probably somewhere between 7 and 8 million.

“is backed up by several sources, including VGchartz,”

VGchartz isn’t accurate because its numbers aren’t attributed. For example It’s original XBOX sales seem to come from that same PR blurb abotu all XBOX sales from XBOX.COM.

“I’d love to seem some statistical evidence that it sold another SEVEN million units from late 2005 to late 2007″

I didn’t and don’t claim that at all.

“Because thats what would have to happen for it to reach even close to 50% attachment.”

No, moron, it wouldn’t because your figure of 25 million original XBOX’s sold is wrong as I pointed out above. That figure included XBOX 360′s too.

“The more you say, the more ignorant you appear.”

Actually you just reinforced YOUR ignorance by not actually reading and understanding my previous posts. 25 million original XBOX’s were NOT sold, and therefore the percentage of Halo sales to XBOX sales is NOT 25%.

“I argued that its not UBIQUITOUS and that there are PLENTY of gamers who never owned it”

“Gamers,” sure. XBOX owners, no. Halo is essentially ubiquitous for original XBOX owners. Almost every one of them has either owned or played Halo, and therefore there are plenty of existing copies of the game to be had which is my point.

“that there are PLENTY of 360 owners who never owned an xbox AT ALL.”

That is a moot point. My point is that it is far better for those XBOX 360 owners to pickup a physical copy of Halo rather than download it from XBOX Live and it is certainly possible for the overwhelming majority of them to do given how many copies of the game were produced.

weclock

On December 9, 2007 at 11:21 am

Screw xbox live and the xbox hard copy, I got halo for PC es.

used cisco

On December 9, 2007 at 2:23 pm

“So you just pulled those exact same inaccurate figures out of your ass?”

No, Wikipedia says 5 million, I said 6. Read much?

“As I wrote above, that cite is old and not very specific with no attribution.”

Sorry, I missed where you attributed ANYTHING you’ve ever said. My bad. And I would say that if the numbers are posted by someone who is actually working on Halo and Halo2 backward compatibility at Bungie, then they are probably pretty accurate, although, in your world you may know Halo sales better then the people behind the game.

“It isn’t.”

Proof?’

“The total copies sold to date is probably somewhere between 7 and 8 million.”

Proof?

“VGchartz isn’t accurate because its numbers aren’t attributed.”

Much like yours?

“Halo is essentially ubiquitous for original XBOX owners.”

I’m glad you changed your tune from this “The original Halo for the XBOX is ubiquitous.”

By adding “for original xbox owners”, theres a big difference in the two. And we were never talking about original xbox owners. This whole thing is about 360 owners. Even so, by changing your wording, you’ve made your original comment even more irrelevant since a large portion of 360 owners never owned an original xbox, it wouldn’t matter even IF IT WAS ubiquitous among original xbox owners, which, it is not.

“My point is that it is far better for those XBOX 360 owners to pickup a physical copy of Halo rather than download it from XBOX Live”

This is baseless and subjective. If baseless and subjective is the core substance of your “point”, then my repeated demonstrating your ignorance has been nothing more than entertaining.

Ok, so forget all your “points”.

Please, tell me just how many original xboxs were sold. And how many copies of Halo? You claim that there is not definitive info, yet somehow you claim to know. I’m curious just how that works. Lets have some fun with your numbers shall we?

Your quote:

“I estimate that Halo sales are at least 50% of XBOX sales.” -unattributed

Another of your gems:

“The total copies sold to date is probably somewhere between 7 and 8 million.” -unattributed

Ok, lets do some quick calculations.

If Halo sold 7-8 million copies and had “at LEAST 50%” attachment, then the MAXIMUM original xbox console sales ACCORDING TO YOU must be 16 million units. Now, I don’t claim to know the exact number, but its damn sure more than 16 million. Everywhere I’ve read states/claims/estimates it to be 24-25 million.

So even if we grant you your backtracked, restated “point” and say xbox IS ubiquitous among original xbox owners, your numbers still don’t make any sense.
Again, the word ignorant rears its ugly head.

weclock

On December 9, 2007 at 3:55 pm

This is like winning a race at the special olympics, no matter who wins you’re both still retards.

Phil Migrowen

On December 9, 2007 at 4:51 pm

“No, Wikipedia says 5 million, I said 6. Read much?”

I do read, but you apparently don’t as I was referring to the 25 million as well, and in that context you and wikipedia were basically the same.

“I would say that if the numbers are posted by someone who is actually working on Halo and Halo2 backward compatibility at Bungie”

They weren’t. It was posted by some Bungie employee with the username of “Frankie” on the Bungie forums. His forum account was only two years old at the time of the post, so he doesn’t sound like an employee who would be privy to hard sales data.

“in your world you may know Halo sales better then the people behind the game.”

Again you fail to read and comprehend the source of that number. It is a generalized comment about Halo sales in a news posts about Halo 2 in 2005. So, no it’s certainly not accurate in 2007, and it wasn’t very accurate in 2005 either. It was simply thrown out for comparison purposes in a story about early expectations of the game.

“I’m glad you changed your tune from this “The original Halo for the XBOX is ubiquitous…This whole thing is about 360 owners.”

I haven’t changed my tune because that statement was explained and qualified by what I wrote IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT which is “You can find a copy of that game in just about every game shop, pawn shop, and garage sale in America. You would have to be incredibly lazy or in an incredibly isolated location to not go out and buy a physical copy of the game instead of paying Microsoft’s excessive price to download it.” That means the game is uniquitous in the sense that it is easy to find a copy NOT that every XBOX or XBOX 360 owner owned a copy.
Stop being ignorant and read the whole statement in context next time so that you understand the meaning.

“since a large portion of 360 owners never owned an original xbox”

I seriously doubt that especially given the common definition of “large,” but I haven’t seen any figures on the demographics of XBOX 360 owners to substantiate or dispute it.

“This is baseless and subjective.”

LOL! It’s not baseless as it has been substantiated above by both Shawn and me. Sure it is subjective to an extent in that it does not apply to every situation, but I already explained that when I wrote “You’d have to be in a pretty remote location to not be able to find a copy of Halo within a reasonable driving distance of your home even if you stuck to just brick and mortar shops to look for a copy.” And, you’d know that if you’d learn to read.

“my repeated demonstrating your ignorance”

All you’ve done in your posts is repeatedly demonstrate your own ignorance and inability to comprehend what you read.

“You claim that there is not definitive info, yet somehow you claim to know.”

No, learn to read. I claimed there is not definitive public data on it, but that I estimated my figures based upon a pattern derived from reported figures at various points by NPD and others. Yes, it’s a guess, but it’s not a baseless one. If Halo simply sold a million copies a year since its release, you would have your 6 million. But, it’s probably more likely that it sold 4 million copies in the first year when the selection of XBOX titles was relatively low, and then 3-4 million additional copies in the years since. That would put the total around 7 – 8 million.

“If Halo sold 7-8 million copies and had “at LEAST 50%” attachment, then the MAXIMUM original xbox console sales ACCORDING TO YOU must be 16 million units. Now, I don’t claim to know the exact number, but its damn sure more than 16 million. Everywhere I’ve read states/claims/estimates it to be 24-25 million.”

I don’t think it actually is more than 16 million. It’s certainly not more than 20 million because Microsoft had shipped at least 5 million XBOX 360′s by 2006. You need to look behind that 25 million figure, and you will see that it comes from a single generalized statement from Microsoft about all xbox sales (which includes XBOX 360 sales). If you subtract 10 million XBOX 360 units from that (which isn’t unrealistic especially when you consider its relatively high failure rate and the fact that that cumulative figure likely includes shipments and not sell-through), then you end up with 15 million XBOX units.

“Again, the word ignorant rears its ugly head.”

Yes, it does every time you write a post.

used cisco

On December 9, 2007 at 6:44 pm

That may be your dumbest post yet. All completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and completely unsurprising.

“You need to look behind that 25 million figure, and you will see that it comes from a single generalized statement from Microsoft about all xbox sales (which includes XBOX 360 sales).”

Link Please! Please PROVE the 25 million figure that is routinely quoted all over the web is false and/or derived from one statement from anyone at MS. This is completely ridiculous. If you want to disregard what is clearly commonly held knowledge, then Please prove it. I can’t wait for the spin on this one.

You and moan and offer no evidence while simultaneously lambasting the corroborating sources I present, including wikipedia, VG chartz and Bungie employees. I read the game blogs alot and it doesn’t get much better than this.

Your essential statement is that no matter where you look on the internet, ALL xbox/halo figures are wrong or sourced from outdated material, yet you are omniscient enough to be able to estimate them both accurately via “snap shots”. Sorry, but your “snap shots” aren’t worth jack. I’m laughing so hard I may faint. Snap shots. Brilliant. It sounds so authoritative too.

“since a large portion of 360 owners never owned an original xbox”

“I seriously doubt that especially given the common definition of “large,” but I haven’t seen any figures on the demographics of XBOX 360 owners to substantiate or dispute it.”

Oh, you seriously DOUBT it. Well, thats just grand. The brilliant snap shot estimator “doubts it”. Well, since, unlike you, I’m not afraid to provide some links. Here you go. Chris Satchell himself, speaking from when the 360 was around 10 million in sales. (then again, you probably don’t believe his sales numbers)

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=71950

“We’ve sold 10.4 million, but the stat you may not have heard is that over half of those sales are from people that didn’t own an Xbox 1,”

Clearly there’s alot about the xbox/360 demographics you don’t know. I suggest do some actual research, rather than just making up based on “snap shots”. It helps keep you from looking ignorant because when some internet know-nothing says, “I doubt it”, you can toss evidence in his face and watch him squirm. Oh, yeah, I’m sure you’ll call the data, “out dated” or “in question” but whatever you do, just know I’ll be laughing while you do it because I know you’ll just discount it while providing no contradictory evidence whatsoever.

weclock

On December 9, 2007 at 7:46 pm

I’m still only going to play it on pc.

forget about that, I’ll play it on mac.

used cisco

On December 9, 2007 at 8:33 pm

@weclock,

I played it on PC and found it to feel really slow. I think maybe because its tuned to be played with dual analogs whereas M/KB games tend to be much twitchier.
I’m usually a strong proponent of M/KB for FPS, but in the case of Halo, I found it to be a better experience on console.

Phil Migrowen

On December 9, 2007 at 9:32 pm

“Link Please! Please PROVE the 25 million figure that is routinely quoted all over the web is false and/or derived from one statement from anyone at MS. This is completely ridiculous.”

I already did prove it above, you moron. Learn to ing read. See “More importantly the supposed XBOX sales figure in Wikipedia comes from a news post on XBOX.COM about the XBOX 360, and it includes XBOX 360 sales as well.” You are two clicks from the source. Since you already went to wikipedia, you must be incredibly lazy or stupid or both if you can’t find the attribution link and click on it.

“If you want to disregard what is clearly commonly held knowledge”

It was once commonly held that the earth is flat. That didn’t make it correct. It’s the same situation here. Microsoft’s marketing department puts out a general and inflated description of all XBOX sales as a marketing pitch for the XBOX 360, and some people erroneously slap it onto wikipedia and a few other websites like it is gospel without understanding and scrutinizing it.

“You and moan and offer no evidence while simultaneously lambasting the corroborating sources I present, including wikipedia, VG chartz and Bungie employees.”

As I explained and demonstrated above, all three of those sources are flawed or inaccurate and therefore not definitive. I am NOT claiming that my estimate is definitely accurate. My point is that yours are most likely not.

“Your essential statement is that no matter where you look on the internet, ALL xbox/halo figures are wrong or sourced from outdated material”

No, my point is that the ones you have provided are simply wrong or flawed for the sound reasons I have given. All sources certainly aren’t that wrong or inaccurate. No such reports are 100% accurate, but I’d really like to see some comprehensive numbers on Halo and XBOX sales from NPD and similar respected sources. Just because I don’t trust your poor sources doesn’t mean I don’t trust any source.

“yet you are omniscient enough to be able to estimate them both accurately”

No, my point is simply that my estimates are more likely to be accurate THAN YOURS because they are at least based upon a few NPD figures (which are more trustworthy since they come from a business which is paid for those numbers) instead of Microsoft’s PR spin. My numbers don’t have to be right for yours to be wrong, but I am more condident in mine than yours because yours are based upon Microsoft’s claims which are much more likely to be exaggerated.

“Well, since, unlike you, I’m not afraid to provide some links. Here you go. Chris Satchell himself, speaking from when the 360 was around 10 million in sales. (then again, you probably don’t believe his sales numbers)

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=71950”

Yes, you finally provided an actual link, but as usual you didn’t really read and understand the whole article. Here are the important parts you stupidly or conveniently skipped over because they refute or at least challenge the claim:

[quote]However Satchell’s comments are likely to be questioned in some quarters because Microsoft has already publicly admitted that it hasn’t really sold 10.4 million consoles to consumers.

and

Meanwhile, recent NPD Group figures put Xbox 360′s US installed base at 4.5 million

and

Whatever the real 360 number though, the fact that Microsoft is claiming “over half” as new consumers is likely to cause concern amongst its console rivals and surprise commentators – some of whom have been vocal in their belief that Xbox 360′s early success is down to enthusiasm from the existing 24-million-strong pool of Xbox 1 owners, and not necessarily thanks to growth in Microsoft’s console business.[quote]

There is nothing definitive in that article. Given that Microsoft was most likely exaggerating the sales of XBOX 360′s at that time, it is also very likely that it was similarly exaggerating the sales to new owners to mislead its rivals. That is exactly why I doubt the claim, and I have good reason to do so based upon the whole picture and not just Microsoft’s PR claims.

“Clearly there’s alot about the xbox/360 demographics you don’t know.”

Clearly you don’t know how to comprehend what you read and to read the whole text of something.

The bottom line here is not about specific Halo and XBOX sales. That is simply a red herring you foolishly threw out to obfuscate the issue. The point I and Shawn made above is that there simply isn’t much of a market for a downloadable copy of Halo on XBOX Live, and a physical copy of the game is superior to the downloadable one in terms of both purchase price and usage/DRM restrictions. Nothing you have written refutes that even if there were only six million copies of the original Halo sold. There are still plenty of copies in circulation to meet the demand of XBOX 360 owners who want one. You’d have to be in a pretty remote location not to be able to find a copy.

“whatever you do, just know I’ll be laughing while you do it”

I have no dount that you will be laughing because you are a fool. And, if you weren’t so stupid and could actually understand what you read, you’d be laughing at yourself or at least have the good sense to keep your fool mouth shut.

used cisco

On December 9, 2007 at 11:01 pm

“You are two clicks from the source. Since you already went to wikipedia, you must be incredibly lazy or stupid or both if you can’t find the attribution link and click on it.”

Nice sidestep, but its not my job to find a link to something that supports your assertions. Provide the proof or don’t but I’ll not waste my time looking for links for you. Either way, you have no proof that everyone on the web is citing the source you mention. Anyone not willing to cite a source is the lazy one. I’m not lazy for not looking for your sources. The fact that you could come to that logical conclusion demonstrates your ignorance once again. “You’re lazy because you won’t go find my sources.” Brilliant.

“It was once commonly held that the earth is flat. That didn’t make it correct.”

Oh, so now you’re an intrepid explorer, going where no sales data has dared to go! Amazing, now we can add megalomaniac to your resume.
And someone at least made the effort to PROVE their theory that the world was round. That which you are unable or unwilling to do.

“My point is that yours are most likely not.”

With no proof to the contrary your “point” worthless. I have supporting sources. You just don’t like them. You don’t even have any supporting sources for me to discredit. Brilliant. Its easy to be undisputed, if you offer no evidence to dispute. They should teach that in law school.

As to your comments on the article about half the 360 demo not owning original xboxs, everything you quote is questioning the total number sold, NOT the fact that the customers didn’t own an original xbox. Learn to read.

“it is also very likely that it was similarly exaggerating the sales to new owners to mislead its rivals”

Another tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. I should have known.

“The point I and Shawn made above is that there simply isn’t much of a market for a downloadable copy of Halo on XBOX Live, and a physical copy of the game is superior to the downloadable one in terms of both purchase price and usage/DRM restrictions.”

Again with the limp attempt at respinning your comments. I couldn’t care less about whether or not a physical copy is superior in terms or price or DRM. I even stated as much in my early comment above. Talk about obfuscation. I’ve never made any assertion contradictory to that. Are you telling me that this entire time you’ve not even understood the area of disagreement? Who can’t read?

All I care about is the initial argument, that YOU started, with big bad curse words I might add. I said Halo isn’t ubiquitous and that not everyone has easy access to it. You called bull and now can’t back it up so you’re morphing your point away from that. Well, let me bring you back on point, so you don’t think your silly tactics and trickery are successful.

My original comment

“As crazy as it sounds, there ARE people buying the 360 who never owned an xbox (attributed by me, with no contradictory evidence from you).
New gamers enter the hobby every year, who never owned a console before (see above). ”

Yours:

“The original Halo for the XBOX is ubiquitous (no attribution from you, contradictory evidence attributed by me, but you don’t like it).”

Mine:

“there are a lot of people out there who never played Halo, or owned an original XBOX (this statement should be obvious and has no need for attribution).

“Phil, I would argue that Halo is not ubiquitous (attributed by me, again you don’t like the source, but offer no contradictory source). Many gamers don’t ever buy a used game (off ebay or wherever) and many parts of the country don’t even HAVE a gamestop or EB (I’ve done research and can demonstrate a multitude of communities in the midwest without a GS/EB within 50 miles).”

Yours”

“And Phil, I would argue that Halo is not ubiquitous.”

You’d be wrong (no attribution from you, only your guesstimates). You’d be hard pressed to find an owner of an original XBOX who didn’t also have a copy of the game (contradictory evidence attributed by me, but you don’t like it, no evidence attributed by you) which means there are millions of copies of the game in circulation.

“and many parts of the country don’t even HAVE a gamestop or EB (provably true). Your only option is stores like Target and Walmart. Its hard to believe but its true.”

It’s hard to believe because it’s bull. (no evidence offered by you)

These are the comments I’m holding you to account for.

“You’d be hard pressed to find an owner of an original XBOX who didn’t also have a copy of the game”

and

“It’s hard to believe because it’s bull. ”

I wouldn’t even bother but for the fact that you handled yourself in an immature manner and are completely wrong. I’ve demonstrated so repeatedly. You choose to ignore with no contradictory evidence. Still. You reference “your numbers” and say they are supported by NPD. But you can’t show where those numbers are. So again, I ask you to prove the above two statements. Do so, and I’ll bow to your superiority. In lieu of that, tell me I “can’t read”, I’m a “moron” and what I say is “bull”. Its been working well for you so far.

weclock

On December 10, 2007 at 1:09 am

@Used Cisco

I’ve only ever played Halo 1 on PC and Mac, and I’ve been very happy with it. Of course both times I had suitable rigs so..

used cisco

On December 10, 2007 at 1:25 am

@weclock,

Thats cool. Its been a while. I have a better PC now. I should probably give it another go.

Phil Migrowen

On December 10, 2007 at 3:02 am

“Nice sidestep, but its not my job to find a link to something that supports your assertions.”

It’s no sidedstep. It is the crux of the issue here. You foolishly and blindly accept numbers simply because they are printed on a page. I look behind the numbers to see who is saying exactly what and why. That’s how the actual truth is discovered and revealed. The reason why I believe your assertion on the figures is wrong is because I found good reason to doubt your sources. For example, if the 24 million units actually represents combined XBOX and XBOX 360 sales to date (and it most likely does given the source and the wording) and if the number of XBOX 360′s sold was either 4 million (NPD) or 10 million (Microsoft), then the number of original XBOX’s is actually somewhere between 14 – 20 million. That puts Halo sales somewhere between one-third and one-half of XBOX sales which is what I contend.

“Provide the proof or don’t but I’ll not waste my time looking for links for you.”

You would not be looking for me. I have already seen them and told you where they are. You would and should be looking for yourself, but it’s obvious from your repeated comments that you would rather remain ignorant.

“you have no proof that everyone on the web is citing the source you mention.”

Given the fact that there is such a scarcity of public information on the subject and given that all those sources are using the same number, it is highly likely that the 24 million figure repeatedly cited is from that same Microsoft marketing source.

“You’re lazy because you won’t go find my sources.” Brilliant.”

No, you’re lazy because you won’t even find the source that YOU supposedly read as well.

“Oh, so now you’re an intrepid explorer, going where no sales data has dared to go!”

No, fool, I simply an intelligent skeptic who doesn’t blindly accept information without considering the sourcec even if it might be popular or convenient to do so.

“And someone at least made the effort to PROVE their theory that the world was round. That which you are unable or unwilling to do.”

I have made a significant effort above to explain and prove my assertions and disprove yours. You are simply either too lazy to fully read what I have written or too stupid to understand it or both.

“With no proof to the contrary your “point” worthless.”

First I have mentioned and deescribed my proof above. However even if I hadn’t, my point would not be worthless. I don’t have to prove that I am right to show that you are wtong, and I Have done that. Your figures are most likely wrong because they are flawed and inaccurate as I have described.

“I have supporting sources. You just don’t like them.”

It’s not a question of like or dislike. The problem is that your figures are either derived from false conclusions, based upon old data, based upon far too generalized statements, or come from unreliable or unproven sources.

“You don’t even have any supporting sources for me to discredit.”

I did mention my supporting sources. I mentioned some NPD figures that I had seen. The data is neither complete nor comprehensive, but I trust it more than yours because of its source.

“They should teach that in law school.”

Actually they do in criminal defense. In criminal cases (in the United States) it is the burden of the government to prove its case against a defendent beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendent does not have to prove his innocence. A defense attorney does not have to prove that his client did not commit the crime in question. He simply has to show that the government cannot prove that his client did commit it.

In this case I don’t claim that my assertions regarding the sales figures are absolutely correct. As I wrote it’s a guess based upon the limited NPD data that I have, and conclusions drawn from other figures such as yours. However I have reasonably shown that your sales figures are likely incorrect or at the very least you cannot prove that they are correct.

“As to your comments on the article about half the 360 demo not owning original xboxs, everything you quote is questioning the total number sold, NOT the fact that the customers didn’t own an original xbox. Learn to read.”

No, everything I quoted is NOT about the total number sold. You need to learn to read the entire text, specifically “its console rivals and surprise commentators – some of whom have been vocal in their belief that Xbox 360′s early success is down to enthusiasm from the existing 24-million-strong pool of Xbox 1 owners, and not necessarily thanks to growth in Microsoft’s console business.”

As mentioned, industry analysts and Microsoft’s rivals questioned Microsoft’s claim on new buyers and with good reason. First, that wouldn’t be the first false statement to come out of a Microsoft executive’s mouth let alone exaggeration. Second, since Microsoft was most likely grossly exaggerating the number of XBOX 360′s sold given that its claim was TWICE the number reported by NPD, it is very likely that Microsoft was inflating the claim of new buyers as well. Third, Microsoft’s claim is something which can’t be definitively proven. There is no real way to know if XBOX 360 owners also purchased an XBOX especially for those outside of Microsoft. Only if the number of XBOX 360′s sold surpassed the number of XBOX’s sold could Microsoft essentially prove that claim and even a conservative estimate of XBOX’s sale like 14 million is still more than Microsoft’s claim of 10 million XBOX 360′s at that time. So, from all of that it is certainly very reasonable to conclude that Microsoft was simply making a false claim about new buyers for marketing purposes to create the impression that its console was more popular with the broader market than it actually was to steal consumer mindshare from its rivals. It was a smart move for Microsoft with no downside since it can’t be definitively refuted. So it is understandable why Microsoft made the claim, but it is also understandable why others in the industry doubted it.

“Another tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.”

There is nothing “tinfoil conspiracy” about it. As I have shown given Microsoft’s track record and given the nature of the claim and who was making it, that explanation is not only very plausible, it is most likely the truth. In addition simply look at how the console market has unfolded since that time. If the XBOX 360 had such broad appeal, the WII would not have been able to dominate the new user market and continue to dominate that market as it has.

“Again with the limp attempt at respinning your comments.”

It’s not about respinning anything. It’s about getting back to my original point and away from your red herring.

“I said Halo isn’t ubiquitous”

You foolishly started an argument over semantics by picking out that single line and not reading and comprehending the rest of the paragraph which followed it. Halo is ubiquitous in the context I described as it can be found in just about any gameshop, video store, and pawn shop which carries games anywhere in the U.S. because it is such a popular game.

“and that not everyone has easy access to it. You called bull and now can’t back it up”

This is just another of your pointless semantic arguments over the word “easy.” However, I did back up what I wrote about it. As I wrote repeatedly you’d have to be in a pretty remote location to not be able to find a copy of Halo within a reasonable driving distance of your home even if you stuck to just brick and mortar shops to look for a copy. I even called your bluff and asked you to post some zip code of these supposedly remote locations of your friends and relatives who don’t have any local venues from which to buy the game. Of course you either didn’t read that part or conveniently ignored it.

“These are the comments I’m holding you to account for.”

I explained those comments in detail and most importantly THE CONEXT IN WHICH THEY WERE WRITTEN above. Simply read and think about them.

“you handled yourself in an immature manner and are completely wrong. I’ve demonstrated so repeatedly.”

The only thing which you have repeatedly demonstrated is that you are a fool who is either is too lazy to read everything at issue or is simply too stupid to understand it when you do read it.

“You choose to ignore with no contradictory evidence.”

I have addressed everything above which needed addressing at considerable length no less. Simply read it and think about it for once.

“You reference “your numbers” and say they are supported by NPD. But you can’t show where those numbers are.”

I’m not going to “spoon feed” you here. I did some searches when you first posted your figures above (which you did WITHOUT attribution by the way) to see if they were correct. I discovered they probably aren’t correct for the many reasons I cited above. I didn’t bookmark any of the numbers and other info I came across in those searches because I didn’t need to do it to show that your figures are wrong or flawed. Based upon the snippets of NPD data I came across I drew the conclusions I made and explained above. If you want to know what I concluded and why, simply read what I wrote above. I spelled it out plainly.

“Do so, and I’ll bow to your superiority.”

I don’t need you to admit that I am superior for it to be true. And, the one thing that you have actually proven here is that I am superior to you.

Phil Migrowen

On December 10, 2007 at 4:06 am

(NOTE: This is a repost of the previous post with corrected typos because the original post isn’t editable.)

“Nice sidestep, but its not my job to find a link to something that supports your assertions.”

It’s no sidestep. It is the crux of the issue here. You foolishly and blindly accept numbers simply because they are printed on a page. I look behind the numbers to see who is saying exactly what and why. That’s how the actual truth is discovered and revealed. The reason why I believe your assertion on the figures is wrong is because I found good reason to doubt your sources. For example, if the 24 million units actually represents combined XBOX and XBOX 360 sales to date (and it most likely does given the source and the wording) and if the number of XBOX 360′s sold was either 4 million (NPD) or 10 million (Microsoft), then the number of original XBOX’s is actually somewhere between 14 – 20 million. That puts Halo sales somewhere between one-third and one-half of XBOX sales which is what I contend.

“Provide the proof or don’t but I’ll not waste my time looking for links for you.”

You would not be looking for me. I have already seen them and told you where they are. You would and should be looking for yourself, but it’s obvious from your repeated comments that you would rather remain ignorant.

“you have no proof that everyone on the web is citing the source you mention.”

Given the fact that there is such a scarcity of public information on the subject and given that all those sources are using the same number, it is highly likely that the 24 million figure repeatedly cited is from that same Microsoft marketing source.

“You’re lazy because you won’t go find my sources.” Brilliant.”

No, you’re lazy because you won’t even find the attribution for the source YOU read as well.

“Oh, so now you’re an intrepid explorer, going where no sales data has dared to go!”

No, fool, I simply an intelligent skeptic who doesn’t blindly accept information without considering the source even if it might be popular or convenient to do so.

“And someone at least made the effort to PROVE their theory that the world was round. That which you are unable or unwilling to do.”

I have made a significant effort above to explain and prove my assertions and disprove yours. You are simply either too lazy to fully read what I have written or too stupid to understand it or both.

“With no proof to the contrary your “point” worthless.”

First I have mentioned and described my proof above. However even if I hadn’t, my point would not be worthless. I don’t have to prove that I am right to show that you are wrong, and I have shown that. Your figures are most likely wrong because they are flawed and inaccurate as I have described.

“I have supporting sources. You just don’t like them.”

It’s not a question of like or dislike. The problem is that your figures are either derived from false conclusions, based upon old data, based upon far too generalized statements, or come from unreliable or unproven sources.

“You don’t even have any supporting sources for me to discredit.”

I did mention my supporting sources. I mentioned some NPD figures that I had seen. The data is neither complete nor comprehensive, but I trust it more than yours because of its source.

“They should teach that in law school.”

Actually they do in criminal defense. In criminal cases (in the United States) it is the burden of the government to prove its case against a defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant does not have to prove his innocence. A defense attorney does not have to prove that his client did not commit the crime in question. He simply has to show that the government cannot prove that his client did commit it.

In this case I don’t claim that my assertions regarding the sales figures are absolutely correct. As I wrote it’s a guess based upon the limited NPD data that I have, and conclusions drawn from other figures such as yours. However I have reasonably shown that your sales figures are likely incorrect or at the very least you cannot prove that they are correct.

“As to your comments on the article about half the 360 demo not owning original xboxs, everything you quote is questioning the total number sold, NOT the fact that the customers didn’t own an original xbox. Learn to read.”

No, everything I quoted is NOT about the total number sold. You need to learn to read the entire text, specifically “its console rivals and surprise commentators – some of whom have been vocal in their belief that Xbox 360′s early success is down to enthusiasm from the existing 24-million-strong pool of Xbox 1 owners, and not necessarily thanks to growth in Microsoft’s console business.”

As mentioned, industry analysts and Microsoft’s rivals questioned Microsoft’s claim on new buyers and with good reason. First, that wouldn’t be the first false statement to come out of a Microsoft executive’s mouth let alone exaggeration. Second, since Microsoft was most likely grossly exaggerating the number of XBOX 360′s sold given that its claim was TWICE the number reported by NPD, it is very likely that Microsoft was inflating the claim of new buyers as well. Third, Microsoft’s claim is something which can’t be definitively proven. There is no real way to know if XBOX 360 owners also purchased an XBOX especially for those outside of Microsoft. Only if the number of XBOX 360′s sold surpassed the number of XBOX’s sold could Microsoft essentially prove that claim and even a conservative estimate of XBOX’s sale like 14 million is still more than Microsoft’s claim of 10 million XBOX 360′s at that time. So, from all of that it is certainly very reasonable to conclude that Microsoft was simply making a false claim about new buyers for marketing purposes to create the impression that its console was more popular with the broader market than it actually was to steal consumer mindshare from its rivals. It was a smart move for Microsoft with no downside since it can’t be definitively refuted. So it is understandable why Microsoft made the claim, but it is also understandable why others in the industry doubted it.

“Another tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.”

There is nothing “tinfoil conspiracy” about it. As I have shown given Microsoft’s track record and given the nature of the claim and who was making it, my explanation is not only very plausible, it is most likely the truth. In addition simply look at how the console market has unfolded since that time. If the XBOX 360 had such broad appeal, the WII would not have been able to dominate the new user market and continue to dominate that market as it has.

“Again with the limp attempt at respinning your comments.”

It’s not about respinning anything. It’s about getting back to my original point and away from your red herring.

“I said Halo isn’t ubiquitous”

You foolishly started an argument over semantics by picking out that single line and not reading and comprehending the rest of the paragraph which followed it. Halo is ubiquitous in the context I described as it can be found in just about any gameshop, video store, and pawn shop which carries games anywhere in the U.S. because it is such a popular game.

“and that not everyone has easy access to it. You called bull and now can’t back it up”

This is just another of your pointless semantic arguments over the word “easy.” However, I did back up what I wrote about it. As I wrote repeatedly you’d have to be in a pretty remote location to not be able to find a copy of Halo within a reasonable driving distance of your home even if you stuck to just brick and mortar shops to look for a copy. I even called your bluff and asked you to post some zip code of these supposedly remote locations of your friends and relatives who don’t have any local venues from which to buy the game. Of course you either didn’t read that part or conveniently ignored it.

“These are the comments I’m holding you to account for.”

I explained those comments in detail and most importantly THE CONEXT IN WHICH THEY WERE WRITTEN above. Simply read and think about them.

“you handled yourself in an immature manner and are completely wrong. I’ve demonstrated so repeatedly.”

The only thing which you have repeatedly demonstrated is that you are a fool who is either is too lazy to read everything at issue or is simply too stupid to understand it when you do read it.

“You choose to ignore with no contradictory evidence.”

I have addressed everything above which needed addressing at considerable length no less. Simply read it and think about it for once.

“You reference “your numbers” and say they are supported by NPD. But you can’t show where those numbers are.”

I’m not going to “spoon feed” you here. I did some searches when you first posted your figures above (which you did WITHOUT attribution by the way) to see if they were correct. I discovered they probably aren’t correct for the many reasons I cited above. I didn’t bookmark any of the numbers and other info I came across in those searches because I didn’t need to do it to show that your figures are wrong or flawed. Based upon the snippets of NPD data I came across I drew the conclusions I made and explained above. If you want to know what I concluded and why, simply read what I wrote above. I spelled it out plainly.

“Do so, and I’ll bow to your superiority.”

I don’t need you to admit that I am superior for it to be true. And, the one thing that you have actually proven here is that I am superior to you.

used cisco

On December 10, 2007 at 8:33 am

“I don’t have to prove that I am right to show that you are wtong”

Yes you do.

“Actually they do in criminal defense.”

No they don’t.

Hey, try this.

I found some NPD data that supports my assertions. NPD data is pretty reliable.
If you want to know what I now know, do some research. I won’t spoon feed you.
My bet is you’re too lazy to find it yourself and you are willing to stay ignorant. I’m fine with that.

Dynastic Heretic

On December 10, 2007 at 11:48 am

Based on a plethora of estimates from professional industry analysts and gaming journalists alike, derived from available NPD, GFK, and Media Create sales data, the “unofficial” sales numbers for original xbox look to be in the 24 million range. Arguing otherwise with little to no proof is the sign of internet lunacy. These analysts would not be so naive as to simply parrot MS marketing.

But, even though ciscos numbers hold up well under actual scrutiny, I think he may be the bigger idiot in this. Anyone willing to continue arguing with someone whose response to “common knowlegde” is to discount it while hiding behind a “the world was once thought to be flat” argument shows he is naive and gullible.

cisco needs to learn to ignore the likes of phil. These people won’t stop. All they’ll do is suck your time down and offer nothing of substance. My advice is to leave it alone and let him think what he wants. He’ll never support his argument with anything more than opinion and supposition so why put yourself to the trouble? The guy actually tried to get cisco to source his data!

An idiot arguing with an idiot is only funny for about 5 minutes. Please stop.

used cisco

On December 10, 2007 at 8:51 pm

@DH,

You’re right. You’re totally right. This happens too much. I saw the signs. I should have ignored the cursing and inflammatory trolling from the very beginning. Responding to these types only serve to embolden them. I’ll endeavor to do better. I appreciate you knocking some sense into me. I’ll remove the bookmark for this page and move on. See you around.