Map idea: the REAL Market Garden... -1 reply

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Chillout

I don't spend enough time here

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2nd January 2003

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#1 15 years ago

As you might know, the Operation Market Garden was kinda different than the one in the game... Paratroopers landed in the wrong place, they had no radio (because of the hills) and lots of people died because of this.

Also, this battle is seen as the largest air-operation ever.

Most of the fights were in the hills (Oosterbeek), and Arnhem was much bigger with more buildings and a larger church.

Here's a map of the operation at Arnhem: ArnhemHistorical.gifArnhemBlank.gif

And this is a map of the entire Market Garden operation: MGCampaignMap.gif

Lots of troops were dropped with parashutes or with gliders: arnheim2.jpg

Also, the city looked like this: (before the bombing) arnhem1930.jpg

After the war: arnhem1945.jpg

On the OMG-map in BF1942, the bridge is almost perfect. It's slightly longer than that (there's a longer on/off ramp than this)

Here's an areal view: arnheim.gif

I really hope someone will do a realistic version of this map. For more information and pictures of the operation go here: http://www.marketgarden.com/




Chillout

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2nd January 2003

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#2 15 years ago

more pictures, taken from "A Bridge Too Far", which was actually filmed at another bridge in Holland (Deventer)

ABRIDGE4.jpg

as I said, lots of paratroopers: ABRIDGE5.jpgABRIDGE7.jpg

also, as can be seen on the original maps, there wasn't any "stone bridge" located in Arnhem... I think this one was added by Dice, to improve the gameplay.

To keep the map a bit fair for both sides, an other bridge can be used for this: the Oosterbeek railway bridge: r00268.jpgr00267c.jpgr00267b.jpgr00267a.jpg




Chillout

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2nd January 2003

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#3 15 years ago

Vehicles and troops were moved in using gliders as well. They used the Waco CG-4A glider for this, which was towed towards the drop-zone.

It might be cool to add this to the map as objects to the landscape (maybe some as a wreck or something like that) CG4A.jpgwaco1.jpgWacoSilentWings.jpgGlider%20With%20Jeep.jpgGILoadWaco.jpgWaco3DTranslucent.jpgWacoHingeNoseDrawing.jpg

more info here: http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/wacocg4a.htm

side.jpgfront.jpgtop.jpgbottom.jpg




medhonor

A.K.A. Chaos Marine

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1st January 2003

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#4 15 years ago

whe have much ideas but who is going to make them?




Chillout

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2nd January 2003

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#5 15 years ago

I don't know... thats why I post this. If I weren't ultra-busy with the NFS-GT-mod project (http://gtmod.m4driving.sm), I would have built it myself...

some pictures of Arnhem buildings (that were there in WW2 as well) arnhem.jpgPopulier%20Arnhem%20Stadsparkje%20Musis-100.jpg

more to come




the patriot

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26th October 2002

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#6 15 years ago

i'm living in arnhem... and i must conclude, that you are completely right..... all of your things you told is right.... and arnhem is ofcourse much larger than the market garden of the game.....

it is ofcourse cool to fight (fictive) in your own city:D:D:D:D




the patriot

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26th October 2002

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#7 15 years ago

oh i forgot one thing, i thought that the railway bridge was bombed.... or not?




Chillout

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2nd January 2003

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#8 15 years ago

In fact the railway bridge was bombed twice I think..... I found a site containing two bridges, the one of today, and one before the war. In the war it was rebuilded.

Live also near Arnhem. But that is not the main reason to post this topic.

If you take a look at the other maps, they look good and large.

Market Garden was the largest air operation ever, so why such a small map.




The_MadMan

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19th September 2002

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#9 15 years ago

The railroadbridge wasn't bombed, it was blown up by the germans in sight of the advancing paratroopers.. They were too late to "save" it....

The Arnhem bridge was eventually bombed and destroyed by the allies to stop German reinforcements from crossing the rhine in the direction of Nijmegen.




The_MadMan

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19th September 2002

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#10 15 years ago

My 2 cent's on the Arnhem map I've been thinking a lot about this map, mainly because I live in Arnhem and cross the bride twice a day.

First, the most important thing.

THERE SHOULD BE BRITS THERE, NOT AMERICANS!

Scenery: The scenery should be more like berlin but with a bridge & river in the middle. On the south side of the rine they should remove the windmill and add some houses there too. The second (stone) bridge should not be there (or in ruble, which is great scenery) since in WWII that bridge was blown before the para's could reach it. To the west of this bridge it should be as it is now, plains because you don't land para's in an urban area.

Gameplay: - The uncapturable allied base should be located west of the (destroyed) stone bride. This is more historicly accurate because in WWII the para's were dropped 20KM (yup, not kidding) west of the Arnhem bridge. In the game the allies should be able to spawn on all points except 2 axis points (see further down). This simulates the advantage the allies had in surprise over the axis.

- Planes should be removed from the map since there was no aircover for the para's during Market Garden (which is one of the reasons it failed). Tanks should stay but only for gameplay reasons.

- Axis armor should be across the brigde, thus making the bridge very important for the allies to hold and the axis to get.

- Axis should get a second spawn point up north where infantery and jeeps/APC spawn, this gives the allies a feel of being surrounded (which of course, they were) and balance the game more.