Freyr's weakness -1 reply

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DScottHewitt

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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11th February 2007

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#11 11 years ago

Modded or unmodded game?!?!?

Scott




086goinfast

NObama

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7th March 2006

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#12 11 years ago

I think they are talking about doing it stock.;)




Freyr VIP Member

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6th February 2005

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#13 11 years ago
man some one hasn't played seven borg ai on hard. You know what go ahead and try. Send in the video. I wouldn't mind seeing. I give ya 10 min if borg are lazy. In my clan we contest going to see who can do it, person who does is going to become a admin. So far all have failed.

Done it, including chasing down the last few stragglers it took me 42 mins and 52 secs on warzone with normal resources. I had demolished the last original AI base in 28 mins, but a couple managed to rebuild bases. At no stage did I feel the AI presented a significant threat to me.

I just built a FC and two diamonds and went on a rampage, remodulating the FC when it came into range of a SB or a fight that was likely to hurt it. I was going to reinforce it with a TFC, but by the time I had the Tactical cubes and I was ready to fuse them I was only cleaning up so I just set them, and ~40 scouts on search and destroy.

I do have a video, however as completely wiping out the seven AI's took me 42 mins the video from FRAPS totaled 5 gig and I am not to keen on uploading it. I might be able to get it down by a quarter of that by using uber good compression and losing some quality but it would take a day or so to convert it to another format with compression and then somewhere in the range of 6 hrs to upload that and I suspect that most people wouldn't be wanting to download a gig just to see the game.

An excerpt of the admirals log is below. Note the 15.76 kill ratio =p

the admirals log -Score-

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 12800 ECONOMIC 31984 SCIENCE 300 TOTAL 45084

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 33800 ECONOMIC 47981 SCIENCE 400 TOTAL 82181

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 700 ECONOMIC 6960 SCIENCE 0 TOTAL 7660

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 23100 ECONOMIC 44134 SCIENCE 400 TOTAL 67634

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 27600 ECONOMIC 41835 SCIENCE 300 TOTAL 69735

----- [A2U]Freyr (Team 2) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 5000 MILITARY 1115100 ECONOMIC 92838 SCIENCE 500 TOTAL 1213438

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 600 ECONOMIC 2489 SCIENCE 0 TOTAL 3089

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- GAME POINTS 0 MILITARY 28900 ECONOMIC 43566 SCIENCE 600 TOTAL 73066

--------------------------------

-Military-

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 2 Lost: 38 Ratio: 0.05 Built: 38 Max: 23 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 15 Lost: 15 PLANETS Colonized: 1 Lost: 1 Max: 1 TOTAL 12800

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 3 Lost: 63 Ratio: 0.05 Built: 63 Max: 38 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 26 Lost: 23 PLANETS Colonized: 4 Lost: 4 Max: 3 TOTAL 33800

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 0 Lost: 7 Ratio: 0.00 Built: 7 Max: 5 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 4 Lost: 4 PLANETS Colonized: 0 Lost: 0 Max: 0 TOTAL 700

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 1 Lost: 51 Ratio: 0.02 Built: 51 Max: 42 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 21 Lost: 19 PLANETS Colonized: 3 Lost: 3 Max: 2 TOTAL 23100

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 8 Lost: 51 Ratio: 0.16 Built: 51 Max: 34 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 17 Lost: 14 PLANETS Colonized: 1 Lost: 1 Max: 1 TOTAL 27600

----- [A2U]Freyr (Team 2) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 268 Lost: 17 Ratio: 15.76 Built: 109 Max: 80 STATIONS Killed: 95 Built: 18 Lost: 0 PLANETS Colonized: 8 Lost: 1 Max: 4 TOTAL 1115100

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 0 Lost: 4 Ratio: 0.00 Built: 5 Max: 3 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 2 Lost: 2 PLANETS Colonized: 0 Lost: 0 Max: 0 TOTAL 600

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- SHIPS Killed: 3 Lost: 54 Ratio: 0.06 Built: 54 Max: 34 STATIONS Killed: 0 Built: 23 Lost: 18 PLANETS Colonized: 3 Lost: 3 Max: 2 TOTAL 28900

--------------------------------

-Economy-

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 12937 Spent: 6426 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 8679 Spent: 3942 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 15959 Assigned: 8680 Killed: 7914 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 31984

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 16200 Spent: 12022 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 11053 Spent: 8706 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 21873 Assigned: 14850 Killed: 14360 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 47981

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 2850 Spent: 525 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 3300 Spent: 285 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 3234 Assigned: 750 Killed: 1628 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 6960

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 15172 Spent: 10393 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 11699 Spent: 6870 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 18895 Assigned: 12830 Killed: 11278 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 44134

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 16050 Spent: 7688 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 12709 Spent: 5388 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 15324 Assigned: 10460 Killed: 9711 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 41835

----- [A2U]Freyr (Team 2) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 25644 Spent: 29075 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 26144 Spent: 11975 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 33837 Assigned: 25580 Killed: 10795 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 92838

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 600 Spent: 270 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 1499 Spent: 120 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 2833 Assigned: 400 Killed: 834 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 2489

----- AI Hard (Team 1) Borg ----- DILITHIUM Gathered: 14863 Spent: 9774 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 LATINUM Gathered: 0 Spent: 0 METAL Gathered: 12203 Spent: 6726 Bought: 0 Sold: 0 CREW Enlisted: 19739 Assigned: 13260 Killed: 13439 TRADE Trade Profit: 0 TOTAL 43566




Chiletrek

Warriors from Fluidic Space

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8th August 2004

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#14 11 years ago

Hello: Wow, you are a killer man!!, I wish I may be you ally if we ever play Multiplayer :D




Achilles

I stole fire from the lighter!

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13th January 2003

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#15 11 years ago

you willing to try it again with a modified AI?




AdmarilRyan

I'm not crazy... Not always

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16th May 2005

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#16 11 years ago

I'd be cool if you could record it.

hmm, an AI by achillies, that'd far surpass anything I could do that's for sure, it would be interesting to see how much difference there would be.




Freyr VIP Member

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6th February 2005

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#17 11 years ago
Achilles;3703304you willing to try it again with a modified AI?

Yeah, I would enjoy that.

Ryan: I did record the last one, its just that its 5 GB at 25FPS (the lowest FRAPS produces) with the sound disabled to save space on the soundtrack. Now, I am not keen on uploading that and I suspect that few people would bother to download it given that its larger than a DVD.

I would be happy to take a screenshot every few mins, that would probably only total a few dozen MB rather than several GB.

On the subject of AI's though, having trained more people in playing A2 than I would care to count I have to point out that while you can program the AI how to build things in a more sane order and get it to build better ships you can't get it to use the ships in the best way possible.

For example, the best tactic with the federation is to "rush" with defiant class ships with antimatter mines. Done correctly a handful of defiants can cripple a base by approaching the edge of weapons range and dropping the antimatter mines within their seeking range (which is marginally beyond their conventional weapons range) allowing you to pick off targets such as the mining stations, which slows them down enough for you to do something that lets you win the game.

Now, an AI can build the defiants and the mines but it dosen't know how to use them effectively. It will just calmly walk them into the area on the map where it has taken the most losses, which is typically the most heavily armed area of your base. It won't consider attacking areas that aren't defended if its taking heavy losses.

This is why I don't think the AI in A2 will ever be a threat to a human 1v1. Programming it to create different ships would help, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problems.




The Joelteon7

The cake is a lie.There is no cake.

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13th November 2004

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#18 11 years ago

Oh dear Freyr. You need to try out some Achillies Ai...you'll know what a threat really is :p




Achilles

I stole fire from the lighter!

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13th January 2003

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#19 11 years ago

OK, I will post it here when it is done, and no an AI is never as good as any human, let alone a player of your level, but if I can make them fun for someone like you then I'm as good as I want to be ;).




AdmarilRyan

I'm not crazy... Not always

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16th May 2005

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#20 11 years ago

Achilles;3703786OK, I will post it here when it is done, and no an AI is never as good as any human, let alone a player of your level, but if I can make them fun for someone like you then I'm as good as I want to be ;).[/quote]

But 7 AI players of the level you make them to might be able to match a player like Freyr.

[quote=Freyr;3703727] Ryan: I did record the last one, its just that its 5 GB at 25FPS (the lowest FRAPS produces) with the sound disabled to save space on the soundtrack. Now, I am not keen on uploading that and I suspect that few people would bother to download it given that its larger than a DVD.

I would be happy to take a screenshot every few mins, that would probably only total a few dozen MB rather than several GB.

oh, well in that case of course, screenshots would be best.

On the subject of AI's though, having trained more people in playing A2 than I would care to count I have to point out that while you can program the AI how to build things in a more sane order and get it to build better ships you can't get it to use the ships in the best way possible.

For example, the best tactic with the federation is to "rush" with defiant class ships with antimatter mines. Done correctly a handful of defiants can cripple a base by approaching the edge of weapons range and dropping the antimatter mines within their seeking range (which is marginally beyond their conventional weapons range) allowing you to pick off targets such as the mining stations, which slows them down enough for you to do something that lets you win the game.

Now, an AI can build the defiants and the mines but it dosen't know how to use them effectively. It will just calmly walk them into the area on the map where it has taken the most losses, which is typically the most heavily armed area of your base. It won't consider attacking areas that aren't defended if its taking heavy losses.

This is why I don't think the AI in A2 will ever be a threat to a human 1v1. Programming it to create different ships would help, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problems.

While in essence you are right and AI modding has been largely restricted to build lists there are other characteristics of them that can be modded with a great of work and study of the files the AI's tactics could be improved as well as overall stratagy, although it would take a long time.