Miranda-Avenger-ETC -1 reply

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I didn't make it!

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#1 9 years ago

OK so I'll admit right off that while I have a bit of an obsessive nature when it comes to indexing facts and getting ships perfect, my knowledge of Star Trek just isn't what it could be, mainly because I spent so many years cramming my head full of every possible detail of Star Wars. But I have a number of Star Trek friends who are pretty hardcore yet none of them can agree on the whole Miranda class background thing. Surya, Coventry, Avenger, and Cyane class vessels have all been thrown into the mix in our conversations and they all have different opionins on the stats on each and the design lineage of each. And then that sparks further arguments about the various Miranda sub-types. Well in my mod you go from TOS, into TMP and onward into the timeline of Trek. And barring any serious effect on gameplay I was hoping to feature a definitive look into late-TOS through TMP operations. SO... I spent a week trying to go through the internet and see if I could sort out things for myself, yet everywhere I went online seemed to have even more variations and theories. SO in conclusion I figured I'd ask the A2 Community what they thought because frankly we have the best assembly of SciFi minds I've run across here and well since it's going into an A2 Mod why not figure out what the people who I hope will be playing it believe is correct? So is the Miranda a descedent of the Surya/Coventry? A sub-type of the Avenger-class? An entirely new ship? Just exactly what is the weapons loadout on the Miranda and Avenger classes? Do they really have pulse phaser or megaphasers?




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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14th July 2004

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#2 9 years ago

Well, the Miranda Class is cannon. The Surya (whatever is said elsewhere) isn't. It may be possible that there was a TOS ship that looked very familier to the typical Miranda Class, but instead of refitting the Surya (like the did with the original Constitution) they simply created a new ship in the image of the Surya, and renamed it the Miranda. The Avenger Class is typically fandom. Nothing cannon in it, just for some reason, some people would rather call the Miranda Class the Avenger Class. As for the other Miranda-looking ships we've seen on TV, as far as I am concerned, they are all Miranda Class variants; that includes the Soyuz too.




Majestic-MSFC

Majestic is thy Name!

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2nd April 2006

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#3 9 years ago
Aerilon;4933316Well, the Miranda Class is cannon. The Surya (whatever is said elsewhere) isn't. It may be possible that there was a TOS ship that looked very familier to the typical Miranda Class, but instead of refitting the Surya (like the did with the original Constitution) they simply created a new ship in the image of the Surya, and renamed it the Miranda. The Avenger Class is typically fandom. Nothing cannon in it, just for some reason, some people would rather call the Miranda Class the Avenger Class. As for the other Miranda-looking ships we've seen on TV, as far as I am concerned, they are all Miranda Class variants; that includes the Soyuz too.

I totally agree here. No need for me to say anymore. ;)




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I didn't make it!

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#4 9 years ago

Awesome. That simplifies that. Much appreciated.




k_merse

Evolution

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1st October 2007

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#5 9 years ago

On the contrary, if the Federation refitted the Constitution, why woudln't they refit the other classes, like the Surya? The Surya's mainframe is the same as the Miranda's (and variants), so it's quite imagine that the Miranda family was born from the Surya. Maybe not the Miranda was the first but the Lantree (the one without the weapons pod), but still, it's quite possible.




StarBlade

www.starbase34.net

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7th January 2006

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#6 9 years ago
Chief_Chainsaw;4933076So is the Miranda a descedent of the Surya/Coventry? A sub-type of the Avenger-class? An entirely new ship? Just exactly what is the weapons loadout on the Miranda and Avenger classes? Do they really have pulse phaser or megaphasers?

Using the canon hammer on this issue is to take all the fun out of it.

I see the Avenger as being an offshoot of the Coventry, while the Miranda descends from the Surya. The two ships are part of the same sort of "cost-reductive" talk that gives us the Renaissance along with the Ambassador, the Belknap to accompany the Constitution, and the Freedom besides the New Orleans.

There's no reason why Starfleet couldn't come up with two ship designs that look mostly similar but do vastly different things. It's sort of like the monarch and the viceroy butterfly in nature's example. I think the Avenger having megaphasers while the Miranda has standard (pulse-fire) phasers gives each a distinctive role sufficient enough to make a Klingon commander think twice before taking either on, without some solid sensor data in hand first.

I also think it's perfectly sensible to suggest that the refits in question had both predecessors and descendents in Starfleet's table of organization. There's an "evolution of Starfleet" chart waiting to be made in all of this. And no two people are going to come up with a chart that's exactly the same....

:cool:




Tain_Enabran

For Cardassia!

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12th January 2008

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#7 9 years ago

There are so many ships in Starfleet that the number is estimated to 30.000 ships. I've registered 14.000 ships throughout the three centuries. All are from Mastercom Data Center, Jakill's, Starfleet Museum, Franz Joseph, Fasa, etc... All the designs are possible. The Surya, Coventry, Vindicator, Bennings and Anton classes are all Miranda precursors. The Constitution, Bonhomme Richard and Achernar classes are those for the Enterprise class.




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#8 9 years ago

That's all extrememly helpful actually. I was a fbig an of the TMP movies and of DS9. And I've slowly come to start watching TNG TOS, and Voyager religiously as well, and even the occasional episode of ENT. But I've been a SW fanatic since I could walk and talk. So I've only recently began delving into all the technical stuff so I can draw comparisons and work on balance etc. I like the Surya/Coventry designs and the Miranda and family just seem like the jack of all trades general fleet ship you'd want the frigates and destroyers of the fleet that cover all eventualities and backup their big brothers the Connie's and Excelsiors. And I was wondering about the Miranda family because it seems every Trek-fan I run into has a different take on what member of the Miranda family has what weapons or purpose. And I'm trying to nail them down for the mod. Expanding the Miranda family into the other sub-types works great for what I'm trying to do because frankly the Fed's are a little light on non-exploding destroyers during the TMP era. In deference to the many shouts and screams I got when mentioning the Saladin/Hermes to my friends I just rolled them into the Akula program in the mod and you spam Akula's like crazy. But they are more the light frigates and patrol vessels used in packs while the Miranda is really the first ship size-wise that you can dispatch on it's own to scout and patrol and have a chance of warping it back to base for repairs before the Klingons tear it to shreads. I want to get as much community input on things like this as possible so I work the game in a direction that pleases folks. I mean frankly I have two competing personalities when it comes to gaming... I either go OCD and must count every rivet and window, or I go screw it just give me a brick or blob to make go boom in pretty colors. I have thus far... TOS Surya Coventry Coventry Assault Ship Variant (carries boarding shuttles) TMP Miranda Avenger -Lantree- (not sure of subtype name) -Saratoga- (not sure of subtype name) Soyuz Soyuz Assault Ship (carries boarding shuttles) Late TLE/Early TNG -Lantree- Cargo Ship Soyuz Cargo Ship SO where am I going wrong? (That figure for the ships of Starfleet ROCKS, finally makes it fun numberswise for a dual-fan like me, cuz the production run of just Mark-I ISD's was over 19,000, brings them into balance on quantity)




SFC3

HL2: Leak: Mod Fan/Geek

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#9 9 years ago
Chief_Chainsaw;4935960 (That figure for the ships of Starfleet ROCKS, finally makes it fun numberswise for a dual-fan like me, cuz the production run of just Mark-I ISD's was over 19,000, brings them into balance on quantity)

Hehehe. A another fed lover.




k_merse

Evolution

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1st October 2007

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#10 9 years ago
Chief_Chainsaw;4935960 I have thus far... TOS Surya Coventry Coventry Assault Ship Variant (carries boarding shuttles) TMP Miranda Avenger -Lantree- (not sure of subtype name) -Saratoga- (not sure of subtype name) Soyuz Soyuz Assault Ship (carries boarding shuttles) Late TLE/Early TNG -Lantree- Cargo Ship Soyuz Cargo Ship

Properly: TOS: Surya, Coventry, Coventry Assault, Ptolemy (cargo) TMP: Miranda (including Avenger, which has only minor modifications on the weapons pod), Lantree (replacing the Coventry Assault), Soyuz (gunship), Ptolemy (cargo) TLE: Miranda and Lantree reamin in service, the others are scrapped. TNG: Mirandas still in service, Lantrees had minor refit (born of the Majestic "subclass"), Ticonderoga Class (Sisko's Saratoga) enters in service, Soyuzes are reactivated during the Dominion War.

I wrote these after reading very much about starship research and starship refitting. Although there are black spots, but this must be the full picture of the Miranda family. The other meintoned subclasses are simply renaming existing subclasses (You know, everyone feels to be neceessary to add a new sipclass to the Starfleet, but wiht the less effort possible :P )




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