"...comes with a handy autoinstaller, too..." -1 reply

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Guest

I didn't make it!

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#1 10 years ago

Whomever it was that came up with this phrase should be shot. Regularly and repeatedly. And if they survive, they should be shot again. In the most painful manner possible. In body parts which contain the maximum amount of nerve endings.

[COLOR=Red]I LOATHE, DETEST, and DESPISE Autoinstallers! [/COLOR]

In fact, I may not even like them this much. Why? Because they screw up games when people do not use them correctly. The downloader assumes, wrongly, the mod developer's game has exactly the same attachments, adjustments and modifications as his. The developer assumes, wrongly, everyone else's game has exactly the same attachments, adjustments and modifications as his. Then, when the autoinstaller wrecks someone's game( and it will ALWAYS do so) everyone is looking at the same thing - an unplayable game with an unplayable mod attached to it. If I was on Staff(I'm not) all mods which come with autoinstallers and no directions for a manual install would be rejected.

The downloader is unhappy because, "That stupid mod wrecked my game!" The developer is unhappy because, "That stupid FanBoy said unkind things about my mod!" The downloader wants a mod which can be installed and ready to go in less than 0.02 milliseconds. The developer wants to make his 1.2GB TC mod as painless as possible to get into the game. When none of this happens(and it ALWAYS comes out this way) no one even considers the alternative. Installing the mod manually.

People should always autoinstall a mod to a temporary folder and then examine it carefully before putting it into their personal install. Mod developers should seriously consider whether or not an autoinstaller is even necessary. Something like MU2.0 or Art of War yes. The sheer size and scope of the things they change almost requires it. But an autoinstaller for a single ship? No. And even in the case of a TC mod, I prefer to place it into my game manually. Far fewer problems this way.

Mostly, people need to stop looking for the easy way out when installing something. I, for one, would be glad to answer any PMs titled, "Hey, thunderfoot! How do I get this into my personal install without CTDing my A2?" I'd like to have the chance to do so before someone wrecks their game, or their computer, beyond repair. There are a lot of pretty smart people around this Community who would be glad to help out. Guess I'll have to do until they are available. =p I am at the very beginning of writing a tutorial on how to avoid using autoinstallers when putting a mod into your game. I'll need to get some permissions and a few other things together, but this has gone on long enough.




Jetfreak

The Real Awesome

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20th April 2007

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#2 10 years ago

And this is why you look before you leap. I too have been victimized by several autoinstaller based modifications when I was still relatively new at a2 modding, One of the most notable incidents was back in early '08. I carelessly installed MU2.0 into my personal build without thinking about the consequences. And yeah, the moment I started an Instant Action game, I got the infamous CTD. I spent the next few weeks rebuilding the whole thing as a consequence. Then I learned that a manual install is very effective when you try to integrate one massive mod with the other.

Whomever it was that came up with this phrase should be shot. Regularly and repeatedly. And if they survive, they should be shot again. In the most painful manner possible. In body parts which contain the maximum amount of nerve endings

Hehe, I'll even throw in a Bayonet or Water Cue for good measure *crazy lulz*

In fact, I may not even like them this much. Why? Because they screw up games when people do not use them correctly. The downloader assumes, wrongly, the mod developer's game has exactly the same attachments, adjustments and modifications as his. The developer assumes, wrongly, everyone else's game has exactly the same attachments, adjustments and modifications as his.

Defintely one of the facts that every a2 modder must know that the above statement is very true. People should not assume so much.

An unplayable game with an unplayable mod attached to it. If I was on Staff(I'm not) all mods which come with autoinstallers and no directions for a manual install would be rejected.

A good policy, this should be requred for all AutoInstaller based mods.

The downloader is unhappy because, "That stupid mod wrecked my game!" The developer is unhappy because, "That stupid FanBoy said unkind things about my mod!"

And thus leading to the mod's decline in interest since all the feedback is about the CTD's.

The downloader wants a mod which can be installed and ready to go in less than 0.02 milliseconds.

That is just plain laziness on the downloader's part. But then again, that was the point of the Autoinstaller.

People should always autoinstall a mod to a temporary folder and then examine it carefully before putting it into their personal install.

Now aint that the truth? I do the same thing :)

Mod developers should seriously consider whether or not an autoinstaller is even necessary. Something like MU2.0 or Art of War yes. The sheer size and scope of the things they change almost requires it. But an autoinstaller for a single ship? No.

Ya, I agree with this.




k_merse

Evolution

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30th September 2007

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#3 10 years ago

I don't like the method either because the autoinstallers only work properly for basic games. But there is nothing else which ould make the installation of a mod easier. I was searching for some installes which not simply puts files in the directories but writes strings into the files, but there is none. You can't force every new guy to learn how to edit ODFs, techtrees, sprites etc. to put their first single damn ship into the game... If anybody could write a nice installer for A2, it would be great. But until then every bigger mod should have come out with an auto installer. And if a modder wants to put it into the game manually, he still can install it outside of A2 directory.




stanny

I like cheese

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7th May 2004

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#4 10 years ago

Hate those damn things. Just adds an extra step to installing a mod by requiring me to run it into a separate folder before I move across all the non-conflicting files.




Freyr VIP Member

A2Files Staff

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6th February 2005

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#5 10 years ago

thunderfoot006;4778637Whomever it was that came up with this phrase should be shot. Regularly and repeatedly. And if they survive, they should be shot again. In the most painful manner possible. In body parts which contain the maximum amount of nerve endings.

[COLOR=Red]I LOATHE, DETEST, and DESPISE Autoinstallers! [/COLOR]

In fact, I may not even like them this much. Why? Because they screw up games when people do not use them correctly. The downloader assumes, wrongly, the mod developer's game has exactly the same attachments, adjustments and modifications as his. The developer assumes, wrongly, everyone else's game has exactly the same attachments, adjustments and modifications as his. Then, when the autoinstaller wrecks someone's game( and it will ALWAYS do so) everyone is looking at the same thing - an unplayable game with an unplayable mod attached to it. If I was on Staff(I'm not) all mods which come with autoinstallers and no directions for a manual install would be rejected.

The downloader is unhappy because, "That stupid mod wrecked my game!" The developer is unhappy because, "That stupid FanBoy said unkind things about my mod!" The downloader wants a mod which can be installed and ready to go in less than 0.02 milliseconds. The developer wants to make his 1.2GB TC mod as painless as possible to get into the game. When none of this happens(and it ALWAYS comes out this way) no one even considers the alternative. Installing the mod manually.

People should always autoinstall a mod to a temporary folder and then examine it carefully before putting it into their personal install. Mod developers should seriously consider whether or not an autoinstaller is even necessary. Something like MU2.0 or Art of War yes. The sheer size and scope of the things they change almost requires it. But an autoinstaller for a single ship? No. And even in the case of a TC mod, I prefer to place it into my game manually. Far fewer problems this way.

Mostly, people need to stop looking for the easy way out when installing something. I, for one, would be glad to answer any PMs titled, "Hey, thunderfoot! How do I get this into my personal install without CTDing my A2?" I'd like to have the chance to do so before someone wrecks their game, or their computer, beyond repair. There are a lot of pretty smart people around this Community who would be glad to help out. Guess I'll have to do until they are available. =p I am at the very beginning of writing a tutorial on how to avoid using autoinstallers when putting a mod into your game. I'll need to get some permissions and a few other things together, but this has gone on long enough.

. . .

Tough.

Any large release I use is going to be released exclusively with an auto installer. (which you may have noticed for any release I have done finds the installation for the end user. There is a good reason for that, some people can't actually FIND their installation directory!)

I'm assuming that anybody with the requisite knowledge to mod their installation to the point that an auto installer can cause a problem is aware its going to cause a problem and avoid using it, or as has been suggested will install the files to a separate folder and work out how it works themselves. Yes, the installation file is designed to allow that.

The end result of doing that is the same as having a zip archive, minus a significant chunk of the file size. On Vanilla Ultimate the installer is 92MB, including the overhead of the installer. The best possible compression achievable with a ZIP archive for the same files is 120MB + If you want to edit it into your own install from there then i'm quite happy for people to do so.

Making a list of change across 400+ text files is so impractical that its not worth considering, let along doing.

And yes, that's how many text files are edited in Vanilla Ultimate. After all, you are including EVERY file that the end user might have edited right? Otherwise all your saying is that you expect it to work with YOUR installation and you don't care about other people that want to keep those carefully crafted AIP's/objectives/techtrees/odfs/whatevers.

Now, lets assume I went to the trouble of compiling a list of every change in those 400+ files. You can expect a five to ten thousand line install guide. Your going to follow that flawlessly without either generating a staggering number of show stopping omissions or complaing its to complex and that I should have used an auto installer?

I thought not. I'll keep using the installer then?




StarBlade

www.starbase34.net

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7th January 2006

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#6 10 years ago

I just wish the mod-makers of the world would clearly label their damn sprite entries so that you CAN, in fact, integrate the mod easily. I had that happen once when I overwrote a sprite entry in one of the .SPR files I don't use that often (emitter.spr or animation.spr or something) and I got CTD every time.

It's my only peeve about autoinstallers or anything else in mods-- so much awesome stuff can be done with a fully integrated .SPR set that incorporates emitters and lights and everything else. More importantly than that, you're releasing your modding work to a community of modders. Of course people are going to want to install it manually. Autoinstallers are great fun but couldn't we at least clearly label the .SPR and other hard-to-manually-install sections of the files so that they can be cut'n'pasted more easily?

:cool:




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#7 10 years ago

Freyr;4778985Any large release I use is going to be released exclusively with an auto installer. Which you may have noticed for any release I have done finds the installation for the end user. There is a good reason for that, some people can't actually FIND their installation directory! [/quote]

So it is much easier to give a man a fish than to try and teach him how to fish for himself after all, eh?

Freyr;4778985...Making a list of change across 400+ text files is so impractical that its not worth considering, let along doing...Now, lets assume I went to the trouble of compiling a list of every change in those 400+ files. You can expect a five to ten thousand line install guide. You're going to follow that flawlessly without either generating a staggering number of show stopping omissions or complaining it's too complex and that I should have used an auto installer?...[/quote]

Agreed, but most of the Vanilla Ultimate files are within folders labeled the same as the folders inside the stock game is it not? So we're not speaking of 400+ files after all, are we? Most mods use something along the lines of "Place folder Blah Blah inside your A2 directory, if asked to over write, click on, 'Yes'. Most of the problems I've had with CTD events come from sprite files and techtrees. At max 68 possible files. My actual experience is with about seven or eight which need adjusting or copy/paste. A ten thousand line install guide? For seven or eight files?

k_merse;4778666...You can't force every new guy to learn how to edit ODFs, techtrees, sprites etc. to put their first single damn ship into the game...

No, I cannot. What I can do, as I stated in my post, is to write a tutorial which will be available to try and slow down the new guys from wrecking their A2 beyond repair

[quote=thunderfoot006;4778637]...I, for one, would be glad to answer any PMs titled, "Hey, thunderfoot! How do I get this into my personal install without CTDing my A2?" I'd like to have the chance to do so before someone wrecks their game, or their computer, beyond repair. There are a lot of pretty smart people around this Community who would be glad to help out. Guess I'll have to do until they are available. =p I am at the very beginning of writing a tutorial on how to avoid using autoinstallers when putting a mod into your game. I'll need to get some permissions and a few other things together, but this has gone on long enough.

Plainly, some people did not read this far into my post.

Or simply chose to ignore it.

[quote=stanny;4778841]Hate those damn things. Just adds an extra step to installing a mod by requiring me to run it into a separate folder before I move across all the non-conflicting files.

Stanny, my thoughts exactly. A lot of people come here with little or no modding experience at all, see something they really want in their game and get all frustrated when the autoinstaller breaks something. The tutorial I've started is a way to give them the knowledge we have about properly installing something a little more complex than a single ship.




k_merse

Evolution

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30th September 2007

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#8 10 years ago
stanny;4778841Hate those damn things. Just adds an extra step to installing a mod by requiring me to run it into a separate folder before I move across all the non-conflicting files.

Oh c'mon! If you're a modder, you spend a lot of time, many hours before the computer for modding. Installing a mod in a different directory needs about 20 seconds more than extracting an archivd file. And you still have to edit your own install either there is an installer or not - at least if you don't want a CTD. So what is that additional 20 secs comparing to those hours you spend with modding? If you have not enough time for installing a mod in a different directory, how do you have time for modding? And the newcomers still will be grateful if they don't need to learn to mod to put their first ship into the game.

We'll see what Thunderfoot makes, but until then, I'll make autoinstallers for my releases.




Jetfreak

The Real Awesome

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20th April 2007

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#9 10 years ago
I'll make autoinstallers for my releases

Why not have them both? One as a Auto and the other as a zipped file? ACOM did that before.

Plainly, some people did not read this far into my post. Or simply chose to ignore it

Oh I read that. I'm actually open to any modding related PM's FYI ;)