Scaling ships relative to each other -1 reply

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Guest

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#1 9 years ago

There was a recent thread where the size of the JJPrise was discussed which I found intriguing. Because one of the sizes discussed seemed large for such a ship. I began to think about object sizes in A2 and just how many ships, both stock and modded, are actually displayed at the correct size, relative to each other. This is the reason I D/L'd Achilles Measuring Stick Mod in the first place, so I finally installed it. It is another of those mods where my first thought looking at it was, "Damn. Why didn't I think of this?" Next, I went to Ex Astris Scientia and D/L'd a copy of the various ship and station charts and decided to begin trying to scale my A2 ships accurately. I had to make an assumption which may be incorrect. I assumed the unit of measurement Achilles used for the Measuring Stick was metres(always did prefer the proper spelling over the Americanized one).

Scaling everything at actual sizes makes everything in the game about three times larger than Stock. If you like an SB34 Comp Mod Galaxy(and who does not?) at the same length as a Class J planet diameter, this is great! One of FahreS' Planck-class scaled at one to one actually allows one to see Dark Energy waving at you from the window clearly(inside joke, no pun intended). With an MUv2.0 background, it was breath-takingly beautiful but nonfunctional game-wise to scale everything this way. So I decided to use one half the value listed for each ship length on the EAS charts. Not every ship is listed on the charts and I had to make some wild-ass guesses at some of the ships I have installed based upon ships which are on the charts.

Something very interesting happened. When it came time to start scaling stations and stock non-combat ships, the stock SOD sizes matched what was in the EAS charts for the stations which were listed. At a one to one scale. Short version. Some of my combat ships shrank by as much as 40%. A few grew by at least 10% and the non-combat ships and stations stayed the same size. Has anyone else done anything like this? Were the Borg as big a problem as they have seemed to be so far for me? If I scale a Cube at half the size listed on the EAS fleet charts, it is the same size as a Class M planet in MU2.0. In Tactical View, this makes a Cube the terrifying monstrosity it is supposed to be. But it is so big it is not very functional in game. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on how to proceed with this?




Dan1025

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24th February 2007

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#2 9 years ago

Yeah I did a full rescale of every unit in my game a while ago using the charts from EAS, and with the Borg Cube(s) I think its best if you scale them down a fair bit from their canon value (I think I went with just over 1/3 of their proper size) the Sphere and things should be alright with the EAS value but as you said the Cube will be too large to work properly ingame. I also rescaled the planets to a far larger size, and renamed them planetoids, since no matter how you size them their still gonna be too small to be realistic planets. Note that if you do change the planet size you'll probably have to change the size of their gravitational field using the RTS_CFG file, since it increases with the size of the planet(oid)s.




Freyr VIP Member

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6th February 2005

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#3 9 years ago

One problem with creating large ships is the avoidance/collision zone around them. Things bounce in a really unseemly way if your get to large, does anybody know how to get around this?




Shuttlebay 2

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#4 9 years ago

What if instead of scaling cubes up, you scaled all the other ships down? It would be a lot of work though...




São Magnífico

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#5 9 years ago

One of the main reasons why I axed the Borg as playable in my personal build was pathing issues. I wanted nice big Borg Cubes, but pathing was so problematic that a small fleet of Cubes would ricochet up and down the z-axis and be buffeted around on the y- and x-axes if they got into a tight place (including large-scale battles typical of endgame). It appears to be a limitation of the Armada game engine...




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#6 9 years ago
Freyr;4906566One problem with creating large ships is the avoidance/collision zone around them. Things bounce in a really unseemly way if your get to large, does anybody know how to get around this?

The "avoidanceClass = X" setting for most of the ships and stations is set far too high, I think. I currently use a setting of one, two, or three for everything and it seems to remove some of the wonkier pathing issues when moving an object through a medium sized map with a medium sized object population. It does have some drawbacks. Objects will occasionally merge with one another. One of the other things I am experimenting with is making the map height deeper in the RTS_CFG.h file. 1200 units seems a little shallow. I have a setting of about 1500 right now and units and objects controlled by the AI will tend to move up or down a little more frequently. It is possible to lose sight of an object on a small map, so the camera controls for Strategic view, specifically the zoom out value, should be adjusted as well.

As to Dan1025's suggestion of scaling Cubes to one third of their EAS size, this is the solution I use already. It is a good one. If it is the only workable one, then okay. I am still hoping someone out there has an idea which is elegant, workable, and has not already occurred to me. I have left the Borg as a playable race in my game, but I have gotten rid of the fusion versions of both types of Cubes. They always seemed silly to me. There are some mods available for the Cube and Tactical Cube which make them very formidable, so the FC and TFC are not something I miss.




Achilles

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#7 9 years ago

I adjust the scaleSod of the measure stick (assuming it was metres) to match a galaxy I had arbitrarily decided "looked about right" then I adjusted other ships to match.... I never intended to define what a metre was in people's games ;)

Actually I didn't make for release, just my own general messing around, so direct all quality issues/rants/wmd's to who ever asked for it :p

I also thought of changing the scale other every ship to about a two thirds of what I have them now (you can adjust the camera to start closer) so I could have realistic Borg without crazy pathing issues.




Majestic-MSFC

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#8 9 years ago

I always scale my models in MS3D then hardpoint them all, and use the scaleSOD line of odf code to scale them all down so in that case they all have the exact same scaleSOD size.

It does take time my save a lot of testing and what not in game to get everything right with so many different ScaleDOD sizes.

One way to get rid of the planet problem is to do away with them, to get rid of colony ships and have crew gain done like in A1, through starbases if possible.




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#9 9 years ago

Yeah, it does take a lot of time to scale everything correctly. Especially when your personal install is a 2.25GB file, patched to 1.1. But very early this morning before work I was able to play an IA game with nearly everything sized as I described previously. It was really awe inspiring to see a D'deridex at twice the size of a Galaxy. I have been surprised at the size difference between some of the more well known ships when viewed Tactical Mode.

It has been fun to place all the various Enterprises alongside each other when they are all scaled accurately. ENT-1701 is quite small compared to a Sovy. I have the Planet Killer Mod installed. I enjoyed recreating this particular TOS episode with everything onscreen blazing away like mad at each other. FahreS' TOS Mod has allowed me to use A2 to recreate several of my favorite TOS episodes, such as "The Ultimate Computer". I have not yet been able to accurately recreate the episode where ENT-1701 steals the Romulan Cloaking Device because I currently have no good Romulan D-7 Warbirds.

This has been an interesting look into some of the choices company development teams make about games as well.




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#10 9 years ago

Yeah I use the Galaxy & Excelsiors as my measuring sticks for what size vessels should be on the Trek side, which was oh so fun *voice dripping in sarcasm* when building a TOS-nemesis Mod that also happened to have a Pre-Clone Wars - Black Fleet Crisis Star Wars side... I know the Star Wars scales for 80% of the ships by heart so I didn't have to spend quite so many nights comparing 23 size charts as i did with the Trek side. I wound up making over a hundred small 3-4 ship charts by cut and pasting ships right up close to each other to scale them against the Galaxy or Excelsior. and I had to bring the scale of all the ships down a fair bit to get the Cubes to at least be a scary size next to a Sar Destroyer. As i said i now have about a hundred size comparison pics and various charts and silhouette charts put out by folks over the years. If anyone is interested in them I'll bundle em up for you. Of course we all make scaling decisions to our own tastes in mods... like I tend to scale the NegVhar up a fair bit to make it appear like the harbinger of doom it seemed like in Way of the Warrior, bringing it up to Warbird dimensions. So even though we have all these great scaling tools in the end I like how we all can just fiddle with it to make it the way we each think it SHOULD be.