I think this is one issue where there are equally strong sides to the arguement. One the one hand the punishment system gets abused, badly in some ways. I noticed now a trend where idiots who want a vehicle but do not get it will jump in front of a tank or APC repeatedly to get the player kicked so they can grab it. How about the fact, and anyone who has ever taken an APC or tank will testify to, that people for some reason DO NOT pay attention and run right out in front of a speeding vehicle. Is that the driver's fault or the player's? On the other hand, if you do not impliment anything that will be abused like mad from idiots who will run around teamkilling EVERYone because they think it is funny (as well as being a cheap and easy kill). Sometimes, even though it is accidental, people should be punished. I personally do not believe someone should get on a 64 player server, in the heat of battle, to learn how to fly. Sorry, they should practice in single player! Too many times have I seen a fully loaded Blackhawk go down because the guy had no idea on how to fly. I might add that the few times I have played commander I had 0 teamkills because I ran a scan beforehand to make sure there was no friendlys. Sometimes that is friendly fire is un-avoidable, but sometimes I think the commanders just do not know or care to look. A lot of times they through artillery in the wrong spot, in front of the outpost and not behind which causes some friendly fire. But should they be kicked and banned? Or maybe their punishment should be they get demoted from commander position. Which leads to another option, instead of kick and ban, they could just ban the player from whatever they were using. I.e commander would go back to soldier, tank driver couldnt enter a tank, pilot would be grounded, Special forces could not be SF (if they used C4). That, I believe, would have a great affect on many players, especially since people tend to stick to what they know or are good at. If a guy who prefers SF abuses the C4 he could get moved to medic. Another option is to modify the system. I know Commanders for one get really angry when people do not pay attention to where artillery is going so people run right in, get killed, punish and then the commander is kicked. Opposite to that though is what do you do when an idiot commander throughs artillery on your only spawnpoint? Although that can be resolved by a mutiny. Another option would be you could not punish someone who apologizes. But then again people would just TK and say sorry automatically. So, is there a way to fix this? Can or should it be fixed? Should it take more punishment to kick? Should the punishment cause less point taken?
I think there should definatley be a punishment system of some type, but I think there has to be a better method than what we have now. I can't think of anything that would help w/o overcomplicating the whole thing...it's easy to abuse, but it would be ALOT worse w/o anything at all.
Heck remove the thing, -2 points for team damage and -4 for TK's. I think it should only be -1 or 2 for arty because it could be noob players or a noob commander. My two cents.
One thing I should add, I think everyone would agree that this issue is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't"
Lets get something straight first: are you talking about the "Punishment System" or the "Team Damage System"? These are two distinct systems, although one is applied after the other. BF2's "Team Damage System" sucks, no doubt about that. You get TKed by being on top of friendly vehicle (and people abuse it), you get TKed by clipping a friendly tank you are trying to repair, etc. So, it's actually a "Friendly Vehicle Collision System" that sucks in BF2. The rest of the "Team Damage System" is just fine (you should be punished for hurting your teammate for 50%, hurting friendly vehicles for 50% or a complete TK)
and run right out in front of a speeding vehicle. Is that the driver's fault or the player's?
You drive along the residential street in car, there are 5yo kids playing ball, a ball rolls onto the road, the excited kid runs straight after it, you drive over that kid with you car. Is that your fault or the kid's fault? Technically, it's the kid's fault for running under the car, but it will be you that will be punished and made responsible for this. You should have thought ahead, and slowed down. If you a racing by some infantry in a tank/jeep/APCs, you see him from behind, he doesn't. It's your responsibility to either avoid him, or let him know you are there. And whatever the outcome is, you as the driver is responsible for knocking driving him over, cause if all fails, you should stop and let him go, or drive around him. Now... let's talk about the "BF2 Punishment System"... what freaking BF punishment system?? First of all, it's a server setting. A server can choose to ignore TKs, a server can choose to keep track (punish) TKs, and a server can choose after how many punishes to kick the player. Of course, if the server doesn't record TKs, then the gameplay is awful, since you get people with scores of -1000. So we are going to assume the server has auto-kick Now have none of you played BF1942? Have you all forgotten that on a server with auto-kick, every TK is punished automatically? BF2 does nothing different! It punishes every TK by default, but BF2 also adds another feature. BF2 has Forgive System. There is no "BF2 punishement system", there is a "BF2 forgive system", which allows to forgive accidental TKs without going to console (the method required for BF42). What are complaining about? 3 people drove over your mines and you got kicked? You would have been kicked from a BF42 server for the same thing anyways. You shot artillery and TKed your own guys and got kicked? You would have been kicked for the same thing in any BF42 server. Thank God for BF2's Forgive System, cause now accidental TKs can finally be forgiven by regular players that don't know the console command for it. BF2 did not introduce any "punishment system", BF2 finally introduced a "Forgive System". There is absolutelly no problem with the BF2's Forgive System. 1 There is a problem, and that is the "friendly vehicle collisions", which makes it very easy to get/cause TKs. But that is the problem with the collision. Other then that, BF2's Forgive System is one of the best features of BF2 P.S. BTW, the "ban" is only till the map changes
It is a good idea but needs reworking. But some of this is also needs to be attirbuted to the vehicles collosion physics. I mean at the moment it takes just a bump by a vehicle to die. And to the unrealistic point IMO. THey should increase the speed you need to kill someone. Then to resolve the mines and such they should be punishable but they should also only count as half a tk so you lose only half the points that way it is somewhat someones fault but not really since the guy who hit the mines is stupid enough to hit them so in that case make it a single point loss if it does get punished. THe punishment idea is great but forgiveness should be a bit better. Like forgiving someone ATM the person still looses some points and it counts as a tk. A tk with a forgive should not cause point loss and not count agaisnt that person. THe artillery should also be reworked. If the artillery is called and there is no friendly within the circle when its called anyone who runs in and dies should not be allowed to punish. If the artillery is called with someone already inside the circle when its called then that person should have the option of punishing.
THose are my thoughts on how it can be fixed.
psyichicLike forgiving someone ATM the person still looses some points and it counts as a tk.
Forgiving a TK will still give the minus score to the TKer, but he will not a receive a TK. That's the whole purpose of the "Forgive System". The game keeps a track of "PTKs" (it is not displayed on the scoreboard, there is no way to know your current PTK count). The default setting is to kick the player after 3 PTKs (note, the player can have a score of -199999 for all the game cares, but it will kick after 3 PTKs). A PTK is scored for each TK (not the team damage, but for the complete TK). If you forgive someone, that removes 1 PTK count from their total. If you don't forgive, they accumulate 3 PTKs (default setting, but can be changed by the server) and get kicked Score and PTKs are not tied together. And no, forgiving a TK will not remove the minus score (nor should it), but it will remove 1 from the PTK count, and that's what counts towards the kick.
Well, a good idea but abused BADLY. Sometimes when I accidentaly Tk someone, and they hit punish, it's like 'DUDE, WTF IT WAS A FREAKING ACCIDENT". The punishment system just isn't very good, and gets used too much, I think. Like when I call arty as Commander, (everyone knows where a strike is gonna be, thanks to the Red Zone marker), I team chat in caps, "Don't go into red zone", yet guys go in, and when they get TK'd, they of course, punish... :mad: So annoying, it makes me wanna make them a Commander, and go into one of [i[their[/i] strikes, and punish them... That, or try to kick them.
7th March 2003
there's nothing wrong with the system. the problem is the players. some are just too stupid to play the game and hit the punish button simply because they can.
Well we can't change players,some people will always be noobs. But we can take the punish system away and with just -2 for damage and -4 for TK. They just need to completly go back to BF42's and BFV's vehicle collision system. It reminds me of Halo's Cars, one tap and you dead.