Star Trek vs. Star Wars 1973 replies

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The Pelican

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20th October 2002

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#1 15 years ago

The last one is the only one that has actual statistics, but they are more like RPG statistics, not actual statistics usable as a comparison.

Take the damage rating of an ISD, it's "5D", but no indication is made as to what the D is equivalent to. I'd presume it's taken from a Star Wars RPG.

On the subject of the Transphasic Torpedo, it CAME from what became an alternate timeline, BUT it still existed in the main timeline, as Voyager survived, along with the information needed to construct the new weaponry and armour.

On Year of Hell, they'd been altering the timeline all the time, but the indication is given that the Krenim empire had Temporal Weaponry before the Timeship was created, so even with the timeship erased from the timeline, they would still exist with the Temporal weaponry.

And I don't know where you get this "Borgblaster Janeway" idea from, in total from all the Borg episodes excluding Endgame, they only destroyed one ship, that was a Sphere in Dark Frontier. And even then, they didn't beat it with raw power, they concentrated their fire on a single point to weaken the shields there, then transported a torpedo with a short timer. Before the Borg could beam it out, it exploded, and did enough damage to destroy the ship. Had they not had Seven's knowledge of a Borg Sphere's inner workings, they probably would not have been able to pull that off.

Before you mention Unimatrix Zero, they were getting their ass kicked by the cube, it was the Borg Sphere that arrived to aid them that did the damage.

So with the one exception of Endgame, "Borgblaster" Janeway hasn't even destroyed as many Borg Ships as Picard.




ThunderchiId

The Anti-Rice.

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25th August 2002

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#2 15 years ago

Whether she destroyed as many cubes as Picard (He never destroyed one single handedly, actually), she did it in a 300+ meter tactical scout! Lol..That's what I find so obserd here..Voyager is hardly a warship, but it seems to servive things, and destroy things that not even a Sovereign would be able to.

Now, back to the ISD stats. Don't pay attention to the '5D'. Pay attention to the SBD/RU ratings. The RP stats are odd..I never understood them anyway. But the SBD/RU system is quite simple. My damage stats come straight from X-Wing Alliance, which is considered, stock, to be one of the most realistic Wars games (If not THE most) ever made, simply because it is NOT balanced tword the player.

As for the Transphasic torpedo. The Federation, having plans or not, would not make it. It's against the prime directive. It is a futuristic weapon, designed for the future. The Federation councle would not allow it's construction in any way, shape or form.

As for the temporal weapons. We don't know if they have them or not. The guy (Don't remember his name) who made the Timeship could have done the research for the temporal torpedo, too. Since we don't see one fired after the timeship is destroyed, and history is set straight, it's really impossible to know. The crewman said they had a 90% restoration when the vessel had fired the temporal warhead, but that was with the help of the timeship. And that could have been after the guy had done the calculations for the temporal torpedo. Remember at the end of the episode, the guy set his calculations aside to spend time with his family, something he didn't do in the prior timeline (He even said so himself), so the timeship, and the temporal torpedos most likely never came into being. The Empire was also destroyed after the creation of the timeship, if you'll remember. An enemy race was erased from history, and with them, an anti-body that had been introduced into the Krenim genome, and once that anti-body had been erased, the Krenim people were destroyed by a virus. So the Temporal Torpedos, along with the Time Ship (Also called the 'Weapons Ship' onscreen), were most likely designed by that one guy.




The Pelican

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#3 15 years ago

Think about it carefully, when the Timeship was erased from history, it restored the timeline to it's original state, with no timeship, they could never destroy their enemies home planet, and they would still be resilient to the virus. At 98% restoration, they had Temporal weaponry, so at 100%, they would also have temporal weaponry, the only difference would be that the Timeship would never have been invented, and the race they were warring with, would have been restored.

Damn Time Paradoxes, whose stupid idea was it to include Time Travel in Star Trek?

As for the SBD/RU units, they refer to shield strength and Hull strength, but they are scaled against something we have no reference to, the calculations on stardestroyer.net can't be considered accurate, as inaccurate information was used, and the fact that it bases it's entire calculations on a scene lasting barely 4 seconds is rather silly. As we all know that everything on screen is contrived, everything becomes just as powerful as it needs to be. George Lucas himself said he'd contradict anything if he wanted to.

A blaster shot to the arm would probably have sent a stormtrooper flying, but to Princess Leia? A burn to the arm. Nothing a bandage can't sort out.

In Trek, the official technical manuals are generally more accurate than the shows, as they don't NEED to be contrived.

I'll have to pick up X-Wing Alliance, once I can convince my 80gig hard drive to start working again.

As for the RPG stats, I'd guess they referred to dice, but then you couldn't have 1D, perhaps the game they refer to doesn't use dice? Not sure on that one.

Anyway, watch "Living Witness" and see the Warship Voyager, complete with 25 Phaser Arrays, and something like 30 photon torpedo tubes. My 2nd favourite Voyager episode after Scorpion.




The Pelican

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#4 15 years ago

Ooh, nearly missed this...

Titanium Reinforced Alusteel Hull. The heavily shielded, carbonite and durasteel-reinforced dome holds and protects the main reactor. And all the Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers are protected by 1 Metre of Quadanium Steel Hull Plating each.

Titanium!!!!! TITANIUM!!!!! Not sure what "Alusteel" is, but you don't reinforce something with an inferior metal. And we know Titanium is inferior to all of Star Trek's Hull armour. They don't call it Tritanium for nothing.




ThunderchiId

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#5 15 years ago

Lol..We don't even know the chemical composition of 'Tritanium', and we have no ideas how much stronger it is, if it's really stronger at all. It could be more flexible, more heat resistant, anything, but we don't know if it's 'stronger' by any means. Wow. They added an R to Titanium..Must work wonders!

Lol..30 photon tubes? I'll have to watch that.

And I agree with the time paradoxes. But think. The guy had not done his calculations yet. He was the one doing all the 'temporal' stuff, so it's safe to say he 'invented' the temporal torpedo as well. But, we don't know if he ever finished those calculations. The last scene showed him leaving them to spend time with his wife, something he did not do in the previous timeline. So perhaps they never got finished at all. Also. The virus only whiped out the people after their enemy had been erased from time, not before. But like you said..Damn paradoxes..It's really impossible to be right or wrong.

Stardestroyer.net is just as good a source as any. Hell, people swear by DITL.org, and we all know how unreliable a source that really is. Why wasn't Leia killed by the blaster shot? The same reason Voyager wasn't destroyed by several direct hits from 8472s beam weapon..The same reason the Defiant was back in service just after 001, because it wouldn't make a very good story if the heros were killed..

About XWA. You can grab a copy off of amazon.com for 14 bucks, and it only needs 250 or so megabytes for the complete install. As soon as you install it, go to www.xwaupgrade.com and download the models they have available, because the Totally Games models tend to suck.




The Pelican

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#6 15 years ago

Actually Federation ships use a Duranium/Titanium alloy. It HAS to be stronger than Titanium, as it can withstand a photon torpedo, which I believe has an average yield of 64 megatons. If you read the below link, it calculates the theoretical upper limits for standard issue Quantum & Photon Torpedoes.

http://www.cakes.mcmail.com/StarTrek/photontorpedo.htm

You know any Titanium that can withstand a concentrated blast of that magnitude? Our existing nuclear weapons could probably vapourise Titanium, we currently don't have any metal, of any thickness, that can withstand a blast of that magnitude.




The Pelican

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#7 15 years ago

About Voyager and 8472, when Voyager was hit the first time, it only took a glancing blow, and it tore a hole in the hull. The 2nd time, there wasn't much of Voyager left, the Borg had modified everything, so we can't be sure how strong it was. Besides, Voyager couldn't be destroyed, they had 4 more seasons to go!!!




Omniscape

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14th December 2002

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#8 15 years ago

Here's a possible theory on why Voyager survives 99 percent of all those grim and hopeless circumstances, other than keeping the stretching franchise alive for ratings.

In DS9's "Trials and Tribblations", the Federation has already established an organization, I believed is called Temporal Intelligence, to keep tabs on Starfleet's most prominent reckless figures, Kirk "a menace", Picard, Janeway, Sisko, and hell... even QUARK (Rosewell incident). Lets not forget the revelation of SECTION 31 (DS9's finest moment) which is the darkest and most realistic facet of the Federation, which I thought Gene Rodenberry would have hung Braga & Berman for.

I think its safe to say that every encounter with time travelers from the 29th century Federation are affiliated with the secret union of members of these two organizations. Carefully manipulating the timeline to mold the perfect Federation just as Anorax did for the Krenim Imperium. They would always make sure that the best possible outcome would happen to Voyager and perhaps every Trek spinoff including ENTERPRISE, as long as it served their interests. Because I don't recall them slapping the hands of Admiral Janeway for bringing a bag of goodies to her younger self, or stopping Bill Gates .... er, I mean, Starling for using 29th century technology to create the digital revolution of today. Many other time travel farts throughout all Treks remain untouched by temporal intelligence which means some dark, behind the scenes activity is at work.

The other 1 percent would be Voyager's destruction via collision with the Krenim Timeship. The Enterprise-E survived a head-on collision with the Scimitar with a gaping hole in her bridge (exact scenario with Voyager) yet she survives in "Nemesis" (maybe its a Sovereign thing). Temporal protection or cosmic fart?

On a side tangeant, it would have been interesting to see the Krenim timeship face off with the Federation timeship Relativity in a temporal battle for the Galaxy.




Omniscape

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#9 15 years ago

I recently played and now highly reccomend "Star Trek: Invasion" for Playsation 1. It introduces Federation fighters, not unlike the X-wing, in the Trek Universe. The fighters are completely different from "Sacrifice of Angels" in DS9 Peregrins and Maqui raiders. They are awesome federation fighter designs. They make the fighter designs of the original Star Wars Trilogy look antiquated pieces of bulky junk!(well... except the X-wing) The Fighters are launched from a Federation carrier-ship which is weak in starship design but most of the major star ships are there including Romulan Warbirds, Klingon Birds of Prey, Enterprise-E, even GOMTU !!! and they are HUGE!

Check out the screen shots in these websites:

http://www.activision.com/games/invasion/STsplit1.html http://www.psxgamer.com/reviews/startrekinvasion.htm http://www.neoseeker.com/Games/Products/PSX/trek_invasion/screens.html

One of the best space shooters I've ever played for the PS1 similiar to Colony Wars. Whats great about this game is the sense of scale. YOU ARE TINY! You can use WARP-JUMPS as an effective tactic. There is also the gravity factor introduced in orbital dogfights and the beam weapons from capitol ships like Descent - Freespace 2. Best to avoid of course. The Borg Cube (NEW DESIGN- the BEST VARIATION of the CUBE) is HUGE and difficult to DISTRACT. They even ADAPT to your weapons, forcing you to remodulate and alternate weapons! You even get to fly INSIDE it to steal a transwarp coil (Derivative of the ROTJ Deathstar run ) You even get to take on a rogue SOVEREIGN-class! I peed my pants.

Weapons carried by these fighters include photon, quantum, poloran, protomatter torpedoes, and more for capitol ship attacks. Pulse phasers and even beam-weapons. I'd Like to see how Rebel and Imperial fighters can stand up to partical weapons and not pulse blasts. Even the Klingons and Romulans join the race to produce fighter-class ships to counter this newest addition to the Starfleet. The CG intro, cutscenes, and ending are AMAZING, same quality as Star Trek:Armada I and II intros. HIGHLY HIGHLY reccomended for those who enjoyed Xwing-Alliance or Tie-Fighter for the PC.

I wish this Federation fighter-class was introduced in Trek much earlier because this thread on mostly Capitol ship comparisons would include fighter comparisons which would make it more interesting to debate. RENT IT! BUY IT! TRY IT!

ps: Sorry forum admin if I strayed off topic a bit with this tangeant ..... but its FIGHTERS in STAR TREK!




The Pelican

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#10 15 years ago

Most lasers use a form of crystal or gas in which the electrons have been raised to an excited state. Mirrors are then used to reflect stray photons back and forth through this medium, provoking a cascade reaction which releases a burst of light. The beam emitted from a laser is monochromatic, coherent, and has a very high intensity. High energy lasers are thus able to focus large amounts of energy onto very small areas, which can result in considerable physical damage.

The basic blaster technology of intensifying a beam of light into a deadly bolt is scalable, and largely the same despite the differences in weapon types and sizes. The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles. A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which "galvens" the beam into its final bolt.

The formation of a laser and a blaster are remarkably similar, I spotted this just, gives the final nail in the coffin on the "plasma" theory. In fact, it looks more like they actually did get the name "laser" from somewhere.

Back to Year of Hell, Voyager was destroyed, but in doing so, she caused a temporal inversion (think that's what they called it), erasing the timeship from history, so everything reset itself, including Voyager. (Same applies the other time Voyager is destroyed in Timeless)