AT rifles -1 reply

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A_Rude_Gesture

Scanian Partisan

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18th March 2004

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#81 15 years ago

Yup, we've already established the abovementioned fact. In regards to the PIAT, I'd say it would probably be the only weapon you could fire from the hip, not that it should be recommended. The PIAT, even though it was powered by a big spring packed a mean recoil (however, not very big compared to the Bazooka or Panzerschrek). Now, firing a 2inch mortar from the hip is another thing.




Flunken

GF Pwns Me!

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14th March 2004

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#82 15 years ago

8 mm M/35 Maroszek: (Pz.B.35) Calibre: 7,92 mm x 107 DS Length: 176 cm Barrel length: 120 cm Weight: 9,5 kg Muzzle velocity: 1200 - 1350 m/s Magazine: 4, removable box Bullet weight: 14,58 g Ammunition weight: 64,3 g Ammunition types: AP Basic principle: Repeater with cylinder lock Country of Origin: Poland Finnish use: Small number (30) used shortly by Finnish frontline troops during early Continuation War. Armour penetration:

"Arma Fennica 2" (1220 m/s): 100 meters 90 degrees: 15 mm 300 meters 90 degrees: 14 mm "Polish firearms" website (1200 m/s): 100 meters (90?) degrees: 33 mm 300 meters 30 degrees: 15 mm "Small Arms, Artillery and Special Weapons of the Third Reich" (1280 m/s, probably German modified ammunition): 300 meters 90 degrees: 25 - 33 mm "Nowa Technica Wojskowa 6/95 (1250 - 1275 m/s)": 100 meters (90?) degrees: 33 mm 300 meters 30 degrees: 15 mm

This Polish at-rifle was developed by Józef Maroszek (with T. Felsztyn according some sources) at early 1930's and was accepted to weaponry of Polish Army at November of 1935. Ammunition developed for this rifle had very large cartridge case necked down to use 7.92 mm bullets. Ammunition produced very large muzzle-velocity, but it came with a price - barrel life was very short and barrel needed to be replaced with new one after only 200 shots. If barrel got too much wear the muzzle velocity started to drop very fast. DS-ammunition had lead core bullet with steel coat. The bullet wasn't designed to penetrate through armour, instead it created secondary projectile by when impact punched of a "plug"/"cork"-shaped piece from armour plate it hit. Both this secondary projectile (typically even 20-mm in diameter) and the actual bullet went inside armour vehicle and did damage in there. Poles naturally used these at-rifles against Germans at 1939. Germans captured them in relatively large numbers (at least some 6,500 had been made) and used over 600 of them during their attack to Belgium, Netherlands and France at 1940. After that they gave large number PzB 35(p) (as they called Polish Maroszek M/35) to Italian troops that (mostly to Italian 8th Army that used them at eastern front). German also modified ammunition that Poles had manufactured for this weapon by replacing Polish DS-bullets with same tungsten-cored bullets already used in their own 7.92 mm PzB-39 antitank rifles. This German modified ammunition had 1297 m/sec muzzle velocity.

During Winter War Finland also managed to bought 30 Maroszek M/35 at-rifles from Hungary, but they didn't arrive until March of 1940 (too late to be used in Winter War). When Continuation War started they were issued to Finnish frontline troops, but didn't remain in frontline use very long. Soon they proved to be too ineffective against Soviet armour, when at the same time their small number and rare ammunition type created extra problems they were gathered away and warehoused. Considering from where and when Finns bought the rifles they probably arrived with Polish ammunition. Little by little they were scrapped and the last four M/35 at-rifles were sold to USA at 1956. -------------- Info found on http://ankkurinvarsi.com/jaeger/LIBRARY_MAINPAGE.shtml /Flunken




Oddball_E8

GF makes me horny

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19th March 2004

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#83 15 years ago

no disrespect to you flunken, but the thread was mainly about how fast the AT-rifle should fire... all that fact wasted... tho i do love facts ;o)




Flunken

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14th March 2004

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#84 15 years ago

nae, not wasted :), the original question i couldnt help with, but a few others that came up it might. Though a 9,5kg 176cm rifle must've been cumbersome.




Flunken

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14th March 2004

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#85 15 years ago
A_Rude_GestureYup, we've already established the abovementioned fact. In regards to the PIAT, I'd say it would probably be the only weapon you could fire from the hip, not that it should be recommended. The PIAT, even though it was powered by a big spring packed a mean recoil (however, not very big compared to the Bazooka or Panzerschrek). Now, firing a 2inch mortar from the hip is another thing.

As already described, the British introduced the PIAT, which fired a 1.36kg warhead capable of penetrating 10cm of armour. It weighed 14.5kg and was only 99cm long, but suffered from heavy recoil. The Americans introduced the bazooka, which avoided the recoil problem by utilising a tube-fired rocket. The Germans developed a range of recoilless guns, most notably the Panzerfaust shoulder-fired weapon, as well as copying the bazooka principle. The counter-recoil method of achieving recoilless firing had been known for decades and the American Davis gun (which achieved this by firing an equal weight of shot to the rear) had seen service in the Great War, but the Germans perfected the method of diverting rearwards some of the high-velocity gas from the propellant charge in order to balance the recoil. These were all effective devices, limited principally by the low velocity which gave them a steep trajectory and an effective range against moving targets of around 100m. ------------------------------------ Just had to give it back to ye Oddball ;)




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#86 15 years ago
SputtyYeah, the reload time is a bit long, but it should only be changed a bit. BTW, hit the side. 2 or 3 shots will kill a PzII

I've never even seen a PzII smoke after I hit it 4 times in the side/back. I hate the AT rifles with a passion.

Maybe the russian PRTD(?) 14.4mm will be a little more effective.




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#87 15 years ago

Well the range is very important with the M35's, they do hardly any damage at longer ranges. And new code in 0.6 seems to make it trickier to actually indicate hits with AT weapons (a few times Panzerfaust shots have simply dissapeared on impact). I think people focus too much on destroying tanks with AT rifles, when in reality as in FH they aren't very effective. I'd very much like to see all the different AT rifles as Boyes, Type 97, Pzb39 & 41, PTRD, PTRS etc but there should be enough Artillery, and AT guns (especially for the brits considering how crappy the Boyes was) so you won't have to completly rely on AT rifles. Their only benefit is mobility. The Wz36's were the main bane for German tanks in Poland, in FH their mis-aligned aim makes them less effective.




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#88 15 years ago
A_Rude_Gesture:roll: LOL! Nah, I'm not British, actually I'm Scanian (it's been occupied by Sweden since the mid 1600's and is located at the southernmost tip of Sweden....*looks like a wildeyed revolutionary*. Nah, seriously I love writing that...takes the piss outta most swedes...*lol*).

What The H? Well I suppose you have a lot in common with the Danes like an unintellligable language...:vikki:




BAM

I pretend I'm cooler than AzH

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27th April 2003

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#89 15 years ago

bra en dryg skåning e precis va vi behöver här!! (j/k)




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#90 15 years ago
BAMbra en dryg skåning e precis va vi behöver här!! (j/k)

:-D