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the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

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28th September 2003

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#11 15 years ago

judge reinholdThe allies also have an AA tank on alpen called the duster[/QUOTE]

Isn´t that the tank with a twin Bofors 40mm. I think I saw it on Bocage, too.

[QUOTE=Juno Commando]The grille! What the hell is that? Sorry I had to quote Simpsons. The Germans do need more Antiair though, as they had few planes after D-Day, except on the one attack I can remember. After D-Day they were on the defensive,, and usually getting the shit bombed outta them. I'd love to see a good Bocage map......

The Grille is shown above on 2 pics of my first post. It is the tank with opened chassis and the large 88mm flak on it. It is named after an animal which is called "cricket" in English. It is an insect.




GuRu10

I want to be like the Admins

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6th October 2003

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#12 15 years ago
the_moveIt is named after an animal which is called "cricket" in English. It is an insect.

No way, just slow down for a sec.




sempai(be)

Addicted to GF

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1st October 2003

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#13 15 years ago
GuRu10No way, just slow down for a sec.

It IS a cricket.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#14 15 years ago

The Allies should not have a Sherman based AAA mount. The M19 Duster IIRC was 2 x 40mm bofors and didnt see service in WW2 and I believe it was based on the M24 Chaffee chassis.

But the Allies did have a couple of Crusader variant with 1 x 40mm in open gun platform, 2 x 20mm in enclosed turret and 3 x 20mm in enclosed turret.

And then there were the AAA 1/2 tracks.

A anti-aircraft turret was developed for the Staghound but I dont believe it was ever used in combat.




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#15 15 years ago

Anlushac11The Allies should not have a Sherman based AAA mount. The M19 Duster IIRC was 2 x 40mm bofors and didnt see service in WW2 and I believe it was based on the M24 Chaffee chassis.

Yep, i was surprised to see the Duster in FH aggain too.......that is a post WWII weapon, as far i could find data on it.

But on the mobile flak issues : like all of them a lot, it would really make a usefull addition to the protection of ground troops, where there is no other AA protection.

BUT.....

Not while aircraft are flying like defenceless fat geese !!!!!!

Light/dive/attack bombers like the Ju 88, Ju 87, B25, B26, Achi Val, SBD, BF110 and Sturmovik must have a chance to dodge/evade some amount of flak fire, and absorb/resist a certain amount of it that is actually hitting them. This represents the larger/stronger structures of these aircraft that did not nessesarely be shot down if taking a lot of damage.

Fighters may blow up after being hit by flak, they have far smaller structures that if hit, would mostly damage them beyond fying capabilities. They should be a lot weaker when shot by another figher too.....

Bombers that truely would have had boeing 747 flight physics, such as heavy 4 engine bombers or to some extend level bombers as the HE 111 and Betty must have enough armour to deal with flak impacts for a reasonable lenght of time. This represents the often unthinkable damage they could take, due to their very large and tough structure. We all have seen pictures of large bombers almost shot in half, but still made it home.

Currently, non of the aircraft has defences against FLAK, be it manouverebility to dodge/evade for fighters and to some extend light/dive/attack bombers or absorbing damage capabilities for very large and heavy bombers and to some extend light/dive/attack bombers.

It is not the flak, ( Jackal ) it is the flight physics.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#16 15 years ago

I think the only reason the M19 is in game is that Alpenfestung was a proposed German withdrawl into the Alps to fight a holding battle til a cease fire or a conditional surrender could be negotiated. There is a chance it could have drawn the war into 1946.

I think the more realistic outcome would have been the annihilation of whatever ground forces in the area by so many Allied bombers they would have darkened the sky. And while the jets would have been formidable the Allies would have had the P-80 Shooting Star as a counter.




Tommek

I hate arcade!

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13th October 2003

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#17 15 years ago

The Grille was a Waffenträger that could mount different types of Guns. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz13.htm (english)

Interesting on Alpenfestung should be the Kugelblitz (Ball Lightning), two 3 cm cannons, 600(!) Rounds per minute. http://www.panzerlexikon.de/menu.php?Item=4.1.7&Active=1 (german) http://www.achtungpanzer.com/kugel.htm (english) It was a ball turret (move in any direction) on a Pz4, later on it should get on the Pz38(t).

Two of them were build and fighting in Berlin. Both were destroyed.




Witch Hunter General

Dread thinks I'm a special person

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19th May 2003

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#18 15 years ago

I don't even believe the M19 was ever called Duster. That name was given to a quite similar vehicle, the M42, based on the M41 Walker Bulldog Light Tank.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#19 15 years ago
Witch Hunter GeneralI don't even believe the M19 was ever called Duster. That name was given to a quite similar vehicle, the M42, based on the M41 Walker Bulldog Light Tank.

Technically it was called the M19 Gun Motor Carriage. I have a book that refers to it a sa M19 Duster. I had assumed the name was passed on to the M42.

I will assume the book is in error. Wouldnt be the first book I have with mistakes.




the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

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28th September 2003

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#20 15 years ago

TommekThe Grille was a Waffenträger that could mount different types of Guns. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz13.htm (english)

.

True, but the only weapon suitable for AA was the 88 flak.

And about the "Kugelblitz", it was armed with two MK103 machine cannons, each one capable of firing 420 rounds per minute at high velocity. That makes a max ROF of 840, but I am sure it was breaked down, since the Kugekblitz ammo containment was low.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/mk103.html