Only Ostwind?! -1 reply

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CluelessFlyboy

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#41 15 years ago
the_moveThe Ostwind saw service in late 44 at the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge)

According to "German Tanks of WW2" it didn't start production until December 44 - got any pictures?




the_move

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#42 15 years ago
CluelessFlyboyAccording to "German Tanks of WW2" it didn't start production until December 44 - got any pictures?

The production itself started earlier, but not it´s use.

"Overall from May to November of 1944, only 87(105) Wirbelwinds were made, contrary to only 44(43) Ostwinds produced from July 1944 to March of 1945. Both vehicles were issued to Flugabwehrzug (AA platoons) units of Panzer Divisions. There were never enough of them to equip frontline units, which were in the need for adequate mobile AA defense. Both proved to be very effective against low flying aircraft. The interesting fact is that prototype Ostwindwas combat tested by 1st Waffen SS Panzer Division "Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" during the Ardennes Offensive (December 16 to 22 of 1944) and returned to factory undamaged."

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/flak4.htm




CluelessFlyboy

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#43 15 years ago

So in other words, the Ostwind didnt see service until 1945 and shouldn't be on any pre-1945 maps like I said (ignoring the prototype having an outing from the factory).




the_move

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#44 15 years ago
CluelessFlyboySo in other words, the Ostwind didnt see service until 1945 and shouldn't be on any pre-1945 maps like I said (ignoring the prototype having an outing from the factory).

No! As said in the text the first prototypes (more than one) saw service in the Ardennes in December 44 and and not 45. Read closely! They also most certainly produced more than only one Ostwind from June to December. So if you ever add airplanes to the ardennes (Battle of the Bulge), one or 2 Ostwinds should be in as well.

The Wirbelwind was a bit sooner. Nevertheless the Möbelwagen, featuring the same 2 Flaktypes was there a lot sooner and therefor should be included in the game.

Especially the quadflak type, also seen in Call of Duty.




CluelessFlyboy

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#45 15 years ago

It says "prototype Ostwind was combat tested" - i.e. one, there's no evidence they made more than one prototype - that would be unusual. Normally there's one prototype and sometimes a series of pre-production vehicles. There is no evidence that more than one Ostwind was produced in 1944 - just the prototype - and that it saw combat service. Show a picture of an Ostwind in action in 1944. You can't. Mobelwagen and Wirbelwind, fine, but not the Ostwind. It's just another case where the model was available in DaCrapper's mini-tank mod so it's been put in, even though it doesn't fit - same as the M19, etc.




the_move

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#46 15 years ago
CluelessFlyboyIt says "prototype Ostwind was combat tested" - i.e. one, there's no evidence they made more than one prototype - that would be unusual. Normally there's one prototype and sometimes a series of pre-production vehicles. There is no evidence that more than one Ostwind was produced in 1944 - just the prototype - and that it saw combat service. Show a picture of an Ostwind in action in 1944. You can't.

Dude, do you really believe they needed 7 months in order to make one single tank, which is produced by spareparts (Panzer IV chassis from damaged tanks, flak43 already available)? BTW. There were 13 prototype mouse with 2 being completed. And the Germans usually make more than on prototype of anything they create.

If you can read German, then you can see on this site that 15 Ostwinds along with 100 Wirbelwinds were produced in 1944. And be sure all of them were used.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/flakpanzer.htm

Further you think they send only one single tank into battle in hope that it changes an outcome of it? One single Ostwind does not down many planes, despite a squadron so even the Ostwind was used in whole divisions.

The text also has a typing mistake: "prototype Ostwindwas combat tested". What is "Ostwindwas"? I only know Ostwind. And it does not state that ONE prototype Ostwind was testet, but the prototype tank.

And LoL, yeah dude, give me a time travel machine and I give you some photos of a Ostwind in action 1944. In WWII there weren´t camera teams and reporters everywhere like nowadays. (Do you have photos of a Bofors 40mm in action? You sure they were used in 1943 and before?)

Fact is, whatever the Germans produced in WWII, they used it right away, since they had no other options. That´s proof enough.

Jesus, get some logic!

(Added) The name "clueless" really fits, boy.




CluelessFlyboy

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#47 15 years ago

Jeez, keep your hair on! There's no need to start flaming. It is not 'proof' to say that they didn't need "7 months in order to make one single tank", or that "Fact is, whatever the Germans produced in WWII they used it right away, since they had no options. That's proof enough.". If you knew about the Ostwind you would know that the original factory was bombed so they moved production and it was delayed. It used to be that you could have an intelligent discussion about historical matters on this forum without resorting to flames - now it's gone the way of DC.




the_move

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#48 15 years ago

It took less than 2 weeks for them to produce an Ostwind. It is not a Tiger, which take a whole month.

And further there are several sides stating the amount of production in 1944.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_production_during_World_War_II

http://www.panzerworld.net/productionpziv.html

http://www.feldgrau.com/afvstats.html

Want more?

And the Ostwind needs to be redone anyway. It should have a driver using the Bulk MG34, the flak gunner steering the turret and 2 MG42 gunners also inside the turret positioned at an 120° angle to the main cannon.

Also the turret has a different shape than the Wirbelwind. The Ostwind´s got 6 sides, whe Wirbelwinds got nine.

http://users.swing.be/tanks.tanks/complet/634.html