Panzer VIII Maus -1 reply

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the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

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28th September 2003

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#21 17 years ago

CraggerOr maybe make the objective be to take out the Maus, could be a fun map. The history the Maus is sketchy at best but from Russian records the account is that a prototype testing hull was built but had no turret and then a completed hull and turret was built.

This Maus was somehow destroyed in the war. Most likely by the German crew, The turret however survived and was later mounted on the prototype hull by the Russians and then sent to Russia for testing and as a target.

1. there were 2 fully operational Maus and 13 without turret.

2. Destroying only the Maus would be too easy. The whole factory must be the target.

3. The Russian Behemoth is nothing compared to the Ratte. The Ratte has less weapons, but far more effective ones, further a more powerful engines, better armour, and better AA-capabilities. Further the Behemoth was built 3 times and destroyed itself 3 times, so it was a complete failure.

"The first prototype was completed in December 1941 and was rushed into the defense of Moscow. In its first action during a dense winter fog, the rear turret accidentally fired into the center turret. The resulting explosion completely destroyed the vehicle. The second prototype was completed in January 1942, and was sent to the Leningrad front. This one had indicators installed to show whe another turret was in the line of fire. In its initial attack on the Germans, the tank broke in half when crossing a ravine. A spark ignited the leaking flamethrower fuel and the resulting explosion completely destroyed the vehicle. The third prototype, shown here, had a reinforced hull and was also sent to the Leningrad front in early 1942. It did manage to shoot down three German aircraft. In its first ground engagement, the KV-VI was firing on German positions when coincidentally all of the guns fired from the 3 O'Clock position a the same time. The tremendous recoil tipped the tank into a ditch and the severe jostling set off the 152mm ammunition, which completely destroyed the vehicle. After these failures, Stalin cancelled the project, and many of the design team members spent the rest of their lives in the Gulags of Sibera. The KV-VI was nicknamed "Stalin's Orchestra" by the few Germans that encountered it because of the variety of weapons it deployed."

check here:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p1000.htm#1000




Cragger

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4th October 2003

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#22 17 years ago

Read your own favoritely linked to website please before you start spewing for misinformation.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm#maus

Only 2 where produced Maus I (V1) With no turret and Maus II (V2) With completely turret. After the destruction of the Mause II its turret was mounted on Maus I by the Russians.




the_move

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#23 17 years ago

CraggerRead your own favoritely linked to website please before you start spewing for misinformation.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm#maus

Only 2 where produced Maus I (V1) With no turret and Maus II (V2) With completely turret. After the destruction of the Mause II its turret was mounted on Maus I by the Russians.

So according to this info the Germans had one fully operational Maus. The V2!

But If you could read German you could read this report, which seems more accurate:

http://www.waffenhq.de/panzer/maus.html

"Sowohl der V1 als auch der V2 wurden von ihren Besatzungen gesprengt, als die Rote Armee das Versuchsgelände in Kummersdorf erreichte. Darüber hinaus gibt es auch Gerüchte, dass die beiden "Maus"-Panzer bei der Verteidigung des Testgeländes eingesetzt wurden. Auf jeden Fall konnten die russischen Truppen die unversehrte Wanne des V1 sowie den Turm des V2 erbeuten und damit einen kompletten Panzer "Maus" zusammenbauen. Dieses Fahrzeug wurde von den Russen ausgiebig erprobt und kann heute noch im Panzermuseum in Kubinka bei Moskau bewundert werden."

That means both prototypes, V1 and 2, were destroyed by their own crews. The Russians fetched the however unharmed Hull of the V1 and the turret of the V2 and put them together. And both protos were used to defend the facility.




[RnL]Sarge

Resistance aNd Liberation

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2nd October 2003

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#24 17 years ago

now i agree... the maus should NOT be used whatsoever in this mod. Like i said in an earlier thread. It never saw combat and the only rounds it fired were the rounds that were used to destroy them. They did not defend the facilities. and they were both moved to Kummersdorf and like the_move said earlier the hull of one tank and the turrent of the other were fitted together and now is in a russian musemum. Heres some facts from a site:

Work on the first actual prototype had begun at the Alkett factory on 1st August 1943 and the first test run -with a weight in place of the turret- took place on 23 December 1943. Further trials were carried out until May 1944 in Böblingen. On the 9th June 1944 construction was completed following receipt of the turret and armament from Krupp. A second prototype had been finished during this time. After this however further development was halted. Both prototypes were sent to Kummersdorf where they were blown up shortly before it was occupied by the advancing Russian troops. A few hulls and turrets were still at the Krupp testing grounds in Meppen at the end of the war, but it appears that originally ten prototypes had been planned.The entire direction of the project and of the design was undertaken by Porsche. Electrical equipment came from Siemens-Schukert and the engine was designed by Daimler-Benz. Hull and turret armour and armament came from Krupp. The tracks wre supplied by the Altmärkische Kettenfabriek and assembly was carried out by Alkett.




Cragger

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4th October 2003

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#25 17 years ago

Excuse me, WHO said earlier the hull of one tank and the turrent of the other were fitted together and shipped to Russian?

Please give Peo the credit that is due. I've been debating the_move's statements to the contrary on this very fact.




docdirty

I'm too cool to Post

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5th October 2003

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#26 17 years ago

zambackcome on, you cant be serious btw nazi germany was developing an even bigger tank

http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/superheavy/p1000.html

I wouldn't say "was developing". Some very strange minds had thought about developing ... but that's all. Both the P1000 (1000 tons, 2x 28 cm guns, various AAs etc.) and the even bigger P1500 (1500 tons, 1x 80cm gun Type "Dora" railroad gun etc.) never ever reached the status of actually being in developement. Even the idea of building something like that is completly ridiculous - there's no tactical value, you can't move it (what streets or bridges would carry it???) - building a fortification with bunkers, turrets is far cheaper ... and as useless --> mobility was now the key to success in battle (example: the french Maginot Fortification Line which was outflanked by German tanks or the great invincible fortress Eben Emael which was captured by a handfull of paratroopers).




docdirty

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5th October 2003

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#27 17 years ago

KämpferForget the P1000 how about a Land Battleship that REALLY saw action!!

Russian KV-V1 Behemoth

http://www.track-link.net/gallery/119

That thing's another good example of megalomaniac politicians trying to do the work of engineers and soldiers. Three prototypes that actually destroyed themselves ... harharhar. If you want something that was really big and actually had a true effect in combat - why don't give the German self-propelled mortar "Karl" series a try? Tech. Details: 54cm L/13 or 60cm L8,33 mortar on self-propelled carriage, weight 120 tons, speed 10 km/h max., designed for railroad transport, build in 1939. The reach of the 54cm version was approx. 11km, the 60cm version 7km. One shell could penetrate 30 cm of concrete and 5 cm of steel. The "Karl" series (of which 6 were built) definitly saw combat. One of them was the famous "Thor" which used in the bombardement of the russian fortress of Sewastopol. The feared concrete and steel gun turrets of the fortress had taken direct hits from "Thor" which completely destroyed them.




sturmklinge

Rippin' Kitten

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3rd October 2003

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#28 17 years ago

hm.. i don't like this super-weapons in a game like fh. the maps are too small for stuff like the karl. i didnt play all maps yet (because of the various mapcycles at the different servers), but until now i NEVER saw an pzIII. whats about this? the pzIII was the main tank of the germans and (for me) it seems its not ingame yet?




the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

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#29 17 years ago

CraggerExcuse me, WHO said earlier the hull of one tank and the turrent of the other were fitted together and shipped to Russian?

Please give Peo the credit that is due. I've been debating the_move's statements to the contrary on this very fact.

OK, so the Maus should not be in, eh? Then this is my last statement about this:

1. That means the HO-229 will also not be in this MOD, because it never saw combat. Thanks again. Everthing, whioch never saw combat will not be included. I remind you again, when it is about Allied protos, which never saw combat or not enough.

2. If there will be a "Kummersdorf-map" the 2 Maus should be in. Maybe the tank crews in the past decided to destroy it, but that does not mean the people playing tank crews in FH want to do the same. The tank was available. And that is a fact. Same goes for the HO-229. And for the BA-349 Natter. Ten of them were available at Kirchheim (Stuttgart) ready for combat, but it never came to that. http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/bachemba.htm