Balance 0.6 Thread -1 reply

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javierlopez

tester

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13th May 2003

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#11 15 years ago

most maps are balanced. The army who plays as a team always wins




Myxlminx

Fearless Leader

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4th November 2003

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#12 15 years ago

And you never get teamplay on publics....as i mentioned it pisses me off to see someone using the katyusha as a taxi to the hill just to get killed... . What would you do on a public, you canĀ“t get teamplay in these guys...




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#13 15 years ago
McGibsOmaha: for the love of god, DO NOT add a destroyer or more lvps. the last thing it needs is to give the allies an advantage. The only thing that should be changed is giveing the allies a slow ticket bleed until they capture inland flags (not the beach flag) and/or removing the axis ticket bleed altogether.

You call it an invasion with two lvcp's? Give axis more firepower in form of mortars and artillery like I said in suggestions. And I agree with Mkh about the right flag.




FreakNasty

Singlehearted

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7th October 2003

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#14 15 years ago

Omaha

I don't think it needs much ballance, saw both sides win. But the map should be changed a bit, so allies are forced to use the whole beach and not just the flanks. Prokhorovka I personally like this map, but it seems to be in favour for allies a bit. Axis have too view tanks at mainbase. Maybe add one or two PzVIF2. (And the IS2 should be removed on this map, because it saw first service in February 1944) Berlin Outskirts Very hard for allies sometimes and no place for allied officer to spot for artillery. Just take away the 88Flaks and replace with PAK40. Gold Beach Arrgh... hate this one! Won one out of ten rounds as allie. Add one jeep at the beach. The Storm Don't like this one too much anyway. But sometimes it turns out in a spawnrape in german mainbase. Maybe make the last Flag takeable. African Maps The African Maps definitely need the PzIII or PzVIF2 (Special) Brakethrough I think this map is ballanced.




Kingrudolf

Fan FH Mapper

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9th October 2003

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#15 15 years ago

Well since you can hardly expect teamplay on public servers;

My own map needs some tweaking I think (Berlin-1945-Outskirts). I've seen many games, but I think the Axis has an advantage that must be corrected. First of all, that PAK40 needs to be gone. The 88's are devastating enough, not mentioning the Wespes at the back, add them Fausts and you got your defense complete. Next, the KingTiger wasn't supposed to be ingame from the start. The spawn delay should be around 10 minutes I think. It may sound much, but the Russians just need a chance to break through. When they do get some flags, the Axis will be able to counterstrike.

The Russian vehicles need some replacing here and there. I think the halftracks are pretty useless. The light tank spawn should be replaced by a halftrack, and the two halftrack spawns should be replaced by two light tanks (fast tanks can easily break through and therefore draw attention from defenders to give greater armour a chance). The katyusha should stay, and be the only katyusha ingame (one more and the game will lag too much). I think the T34 (which is the only T34 at the moment) might as well be replaced by a T34/85.

Finally, the Axis should receive a Jagdpanther or Hetzer, near the command bunker. Theres a nice dug in place for a tank there (used to have a tank spawn there before though), which should have a long respawn time (say 120 seconds). I think the ticket ratios are more than fair. Basically, the Axis are able to hold off the Russians in the beginning, but eventually they will be overrun. Then the tables turn, about half way the match, and the Russians should win the match, if not sooner. The KingTiger is there to provide some cover for the Axis when their spawns are lost and offers a chance to break through. The hanomags also need to be replaced by normal hanomags, as the rockets cause too much lag (two rocket hanomags total).

Especially on 32 player servers (full) it's very tough for the Russians to break through right now, since the Axis team can cover each and every inch of terrain, the Flaks in front, Fausts in the trenches, MG's everywhere, and the KingTiger in the back. It's a darned slaghter on full servers.

A few tips for the people who play the map out there:

-Theres a sniper kit on the Russian side of the map, you can ly down in the middle of the hill, just behind it and whoop some serious ass with it, as the hill is not completely straight, it offers you excellent cover. -Theres a "secret" place on the Axis side which allows you to do some excellent sightseeing. Allows you to view the whole map until the fog limit. -Theres a SGT44 kit on the Axis side. Much better than the MP40 I can tell ya.

Finally some gameplay tips:

-Use the officer kit on the Russian side and hop in a light tank. Just over the hill quickly spot artillery for the katyusha and howitzers. It is important to man and use the artillery, because if you can take out the 88's, then it will improve chances of breakthrough for the Russians enormously. -If you're on the Russian side and capped a flag; immediately switch to the PPsH kit. Nothing is deadlier in the trenches than this killing machine. -The Axis should always man the Wespes. Many oversee these artillery pieces, but they can be very useful. They're powerful, and very well dug in.

And finally.. please, don't jump in a tank and stop on the hill.. you'll be just one more duck to shoot for the Axis. Literally, a sitting duck. Rush instead!

I can also edit the map myself and fix some issues (also found some bugs) and send it to whoever I need to send it to.




Solo4114

Scoundrel Extraordinaire

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16th September 2002

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#16 15 years ago

Crete seems to go to the Allies pretty much every time. I think that's because of the no-planes thing and the constant ticket bleed, as well as (I believe) the allied ticket advantage. So even if you cut their supply lines, you're still gonna bleed out before them. And that's assuming you can hold the various positions in question.

Pavlov some have said favors the Russians, due to the PPSh and the fact that they're closer to the flags, but I've seen the Germans win this one too. Either way, though, the map's usually over in about five minutes max. you might consider making the map overall larger and spreading the flags out. As it is, the map's a meat grinder that's over VERY quickly.

Tobruk is HORRIBLY unbalanced in favor of the British. The British have the advantage of positioning as well as equipment. The German Stugs are beasts, but they're extremely slow and have poor visibility (you can only look forward and have no independent turret). The Panzer II is lightning fast, but weakly armored and armed. The 20mm cannon can take out the Stuart, but you have to go through at least two clips worth of ammo to do so, by which point you're probably dead already, even if you stayed mobile. The artillery pieces are fine, but I don't think there's a spotting class on that map, so you're not going to do any precision bombardment and people aren't scared enough to be suppressed (guess it's the whole respawning thing). The Germans have a LOT of open ground to cross and the Brits have good defensive positioning thanks to the sandbags and bunkers. This means that Stugs, PIIs and even infantry get cut down before they can actually get anywhere. Even if you manage to haul ass to the back base (which I've done) and capture it, you've got no new gear coming and have to hold out with infantry only, and the spawn points are out in the open so your reinforcements get blown to hell as they spawn.

For Tobruk, the Germans need either: less open ground to cover (give them some ridges and stuff to hide behind so they can bring the Stugs to bear), some actual tanks as opposed to glorified armored cars (IE: PIII or some PIVs as placeholders), or both. Maybe air support if you can't do either of those, though I've no idea where you would put the airfield. Possibly a spotter class (sniper kits or officers) too.

Bocage seems, whenever I play, to go to the Allies, though I'm not sure why. Might be positioning, might be the semi-auto rifles and carbines. Not really sure.

El Alamein is another one that pretty heavily favors the British, it seems. This could be due to the bug of a substantial portion of the German air force spawning destroyed. With the help of a dedicated bomber, you might actually get somewhere. However, again, the PIIs and Stugs are pretty weak compared to Crusaders, Shermans, and the odd Stuart. A turret with a real gun makes a big difference. Placement wise, things are pretty even, so it comes down to equipment. Some might argue that the british planes suck (currently) so that balances things out, but like I said, a good portion of the axis airforce never gets off the ground. And while the british planes may indeed suck, 1.) they won't suck forever, and 2.) the brits don't NEED planes on that map. They've got better tanks that can go pretty well unchallenged. A PIV is "fair to middlin' " against a Sherman on this map, and the Crusader, which has a much lower profile, can go head to head with it. The PIIs are good, but only for rapid deployment to the two closer flags and then light defense against infantry. Beyond that, they're pretty much cannon fodder. I'd say that the Axis either need more PIVs, or better air power (more of a bomber force). One nice thing is that this is one of the only maps where you can actually LAND your plane to rearm and repair.

I'll post some thoughts on other maps in a bit.




ReichwolffTBC

I don't spend enough time here

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21st October 2003

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#17 15 years ago

AceSGuys now we really need your help, plz post in here what maps you think are unbalanced in FH , what side has the advantage and plz also post why you think this unbalance occurs on the very maps.

Would really help us improve FH for 0.62...

FLAME ON!!

BATTLEAXE: (Advantage British) -Germans NEED their planes. -Germans NEED more than one Stug to take on British Armor.

CORAL SEA: (Advantage USA) -The Japanese Carrier needs the planes to spawn differently. As it stands now Japanese bombers cannot launch without running into spawning or parked zeros. The US carrier needs to lose the forward Hellcat that blocks the elevator launch path.

TOBURK: (Advantage British) -Germans again need at least another Stug to compete with british armor on this map.

KARELIA Winter: (Advantage Russians) -The German armor is a joke. Again, another Stug would do wonders.

BREAKTHROUGH: (Advantage British in AIR) -The Flight mods for the Spitfire and FW190 need a lot of work. The germans have NO aircraft that can challenge the Typoons on this map. The FW190 is far to sluggish to give the Typoons any trouble at all. ME262 turns slow but this is ok since it performs correctly per historical accounts. Lucky for the Germans the Spitfire flight mod is a mess because if not the British would be even more weighted. The Germans also have no bombers on this map to answer for the typoon's rockets vs armor. The Germans need at least a bomb loaded FW or a ME110 even the Stuka would be a nice help.

BOCAGE: (Advantage Allies) -The germans need a Flak 88 or PAK40 to cover the front and rear entrance to their main base. It's too easy to spawn camp the germans compared to the american base.




ReichwolffTBC

I don't spend enough time here

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21st October 2003

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#18 15 years ago

KingrudolfWell since you can hardly expect teamplay on public servers;

My own map needs some tweaking I think (Berlin-1945-Outskirts). I've seen many games, but I think the Axis has an advantage that must be corrected. First of all, that PAK40 needs to be gone. The 88's are devastating enough, not mentioning the Wespes at the back, add them Fausts and you got your defense complete. Next, the KingTiger wasn't supposed to be ingame from the start. The spawn delay should be around 10 minutes I think. It may sound much, but the Russians just need a chance to break through. When they do get some flags, the Axis will be able to counterstrike.

The Russian vehicles need some replacing here and there. I think the halftracks are pretty useless. The light tank spawn should be replaced by a halftrack, and the two halftrack spawns should be replaced by two light tanks (fast tanks can easily break through and therefore draw attention from defenders to give greater armour a chance). The katyusha should stay, and be the only katyusha ingame (one more and the game will lag too much). I think the T34 (which is the only T34 at the moment) might as well be replaced by a T34/85.

Finally, the Axis should receive a Jagdpanther or Hetzer, near the command bunker. Theres a nice dug in place for a tank there (used to have a tank spawn there before though), which should have a long respawn time (say 120 seconds). I think the ticket ratios are more than fair. Basically, the Axis are able to hold off the Russians in the beginning, but eventually they will be overrun. Then the tables turn, about half way the match, and the Russians should win the match, if not sooner. The KingTiger is there to provide some cover for the Axis when their spawns are lost and offers a chance to break through. The hanomags also need to be replaced by normal hanomags, as the rockets cause too much lag (two rocket hanomags total).

Especially on 32 player servers (full) it's very tough for the Russians to break through right now, since the Axis team can cover each and every inch of terrain, the Flaks in front, Fausts in the trenches, MG's everywhere, and the KingTiger in the back. It's a darned slaghter on full servers.

A few tips for the people who play the map out there:

-Theres a sniper kit on the Russian side of the map, you can ly down in the middle of the hill, just behind it and whoop some serious ass with it, as the hill is not completely straight, it offers you excellent cover. -Theres a "secret" place on the Axis side which allows you to do some excellent sightseeing. Allows you to view the whole map until the fog limit. -Theres a SGT44 kit on the Axis side. Much better than the MP40 I can tell ya.

Finally some gameplay tips:

-Use the officer kit on the Russian side and hop in a light tank. Just over the hill quickly spot artillery for the katyusha and howitzers. It is important to man and use the artillery, because if you can take out the 88's, then it will improve chances of breakthrough for the Russians enormously. -If you're on the Russian side and capped a flag; immediately switch to the PPsH kit. Nothing is deadlier in the trenches than this killing machine. -The Axis should always man the Wespes. Many oversee these artillery pieces, but they can be very useful. They're powerful, and very well dug in.

And finally.. please, don't jump in a tank and stop on the hill.. you'll be just one more duck to shoot for the Axis. Literally, a sitting duck. Rush instead!

I can also edit the map myself and fix some issues (also found some bugs) and send it to whoever I need to send it to.

Hey I know it's your map and all but I MUST protest. Our clan can play the russians on this map AS IS and kick the crap out of the Germans EVERYTIME. NO one in the public servers EVER play this map correctly IMHO as the russians. It's soooo simple it's sick. The Russian Arty will win this map every time...I'd bet you could put 2 king tigers on this map and the russians...if done correctly will win. Once the lead postions are gone the KT cannot face all the soviet tanks at once...impossible. This map DOES NOT need to be tweaked IMHO...not a poor map AT ALL....just poor tactics on the russian side and lack of team work and it's a German Slaughter fest. OH ONE BIG ISSUE for BOTH sides. TANKS SHOULD roll right OVER the sandbag corridors/Trenches...sandbags should not stop or "flip" tanks as heavy as the IS-2, KV or KT are. It would also help the rushing soviet tanks once they crest the hill and snake through the tank traps.




Heinrich Blotgrasse

XXIX Panzerkorps

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2nd November 2003

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#19 15 years ago

Roger WatersI don't dislike realistic imbalance but the map The Storm is impossible for Axis side to win they have one tank and the russians have massive amounts. Even though they have a lot of flak18/36 most people try to kill the tanks with the AA not knowing how to switch between and there are not enough to hold off all the russian tanks.[/QUOTE]

Advantage: Allies

Ply3r_17ok here goes ;)

The Storm: advantage - Axis.

Russians have too weak armor to get past the Axis 88's, I'd suggest taking out the Russian light tank and replacing it with that KV model. Another thing is that the APC's are never used, maybe swaping these for armor would help. [/QUOTE]

Advantage: Axis

D-fence The Storm: Haven't seen allies win this one yet (due to server settings?). Marginal ticket advantage is effectivly reduced by the powerful German defence. I suggest the Axis uncappable base should be turned into a cappable or somehow be moved farther away from the rest of the flags. The Il2 with rockets seem out of place due to the low number of axis tanks. It should have bombs or cluster bombs.

Advantage: Axis

[QUOTE=MkH^]The Storm: Axis base needs to be cappable. Every time I've played it, it has turned to a baserapefest by Allies. Every single time. It's really terrible for the Axis. They seriously need something in the mainbase to lauch a counter attack against allies.. Maybe two Tigers/Panthers, that spawn after all flags have been captured. Most times when playing the map on axis, I've just left the computer and went to watch TV until it changes.. No idea really to play the map just to die time after time before I even get to move one step. Terrible, especially on +800 ticket servers.

Advantage: Allies

[QUOTE=Myxlminx]the storm is too easy for allies to win, cause the "snowspeeder" slip too easily through the eastern line of defense and once the allies have started capturing falgs behind the axis front the map is almost done for, maybe strengthen the eastern axis defense up a little.

Advantage: Allies

I find this interesting. 5 opinions with 2 saying its too much in favour Axis and 3 saying it's too in favour of Allies. I think this will be the case for a number of maps because of the different experiences people have when playing it. Does this mean that the map is fundementally unbalanced? Not really.

The reason that people think it's too unbalanced toward Axis is simply poor tactical play. I've played this map many times on both sides and when the allies get owned it's almost always because they send their tanks straight at the front into a slew of artillary and Flak positions. Of course you are going to lose if you keep doing that.

However if the Axis line of defence is flanked the story is quite different. This is essentially the beginning of the end for Axis not because of the overwhelming number of tanks the Allies have but something else.....the PPsh.

Once the Allied armour has breached the german defenses they become limited in their ability to take additional flags and vunlerable to german AT. What seals the fate of the Axis team is the legions of russian assault players spawning at capped cps with PPsHs. Once a flag is taken by the Russians it's quite easy to overwhelm the rest of the flags with infantry and that is when the base raping comes into play. When all the flags are gone the T34s move in to camp and its an painful end for the Axis.

Solution: I'm not sure if this is historically accurate but the solution to the problem is not to give Axis more armour but equip them to deal with PPSH infantry by giving them the STG instead of a K98 for the Assault Class.




Heinrich Blotgrasse

XXIX Panzerkorps

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2nd November 2003

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#20 15 years ago

Varilisk - I haven't played this much since 0.6 but as far as I know it's unchanged. If there has been a change it may be that the Katyusha has bee made more accurate. This may help the Allies somewhat but there also needs to be more T34s and/or field guns situated in the appropraite position for defense. I thought about suggesting an IS-2 in but that would radically overbalance the map in favour of Allies.