Dev's Why did you Make Panzers Suck so BAD?? -1 reply

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FreakNasty

Singlehearted

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7th October 2003

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#51 15 years ago

I really don't know where the problem is... The panzer IV D was a weak armored tank and had a poor main gun. The T34/76 matched the PzIV D in all aspects. The T34 on the other hand sucks against the Tiger (even the T34/85 sucks badly in the mod). On maps where the Axis have no Tiger they still have the Panzerfaust (wich causes even a Tiger heavy damage). BTW, the PzID isn't that bad, but the T34 was superior, so the Tiger was compared to the T34/76. The PzIII J also wasn't as good as the T34, but much better than a PzIV D. So, if you want to equal the PzIV D with T34/76, then you also have to equal the T34/85 with the Tiger... LOL




Archangel85

Customtitles rock!

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30th June 2003

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#52 15 years ago

"balance" as in "lets just make it the same vehicle with different models and skins" can't be it. I agree that the Pnz IVD sucks really bad, but so it did in real life. Is a realism based mod supposed to make a battle fair at the sake of historical accuracy? If a battle was won in the past, then a mod should give the same circumstances (maybe a bit recalculated, since players don't have an age-long training in using the weapon or like the russians, no training in doing so). If the historical looser wins in the end, it should be because of good teamwork, not because it had two players that could handle a tank better than the rest of the enemy. During WWII, nobody on Ohmaha stood up and said: "That is so unfair, you mean spawncampers!" Historical outcomes usually tend to make the players of the winning side leaning back because "we can not loose". When the opposing team works closely together (and with that I mean repairing a tank without being told so, covering people without being asked to etc), it can beat them. On hailar once, the russians had T34s and semiautomatic rifles vs. Karabines and chi-Has. Historical correct would be an astounishing russian victory, compleatly annihilating the japanese. We were defeated soundly. The japanese simply crushed us.




bacon flaps

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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28th September 2003

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#53 15 years ago
CoolguyThe Panther A & G are remodelled, got new skins and will be in 0.6 Ready to pwn Allied armour at long distance ^_^

I saw this just now, and, well.. There's only one thing for me to do now.

Worship the FH Team like the idols they are.

/me begins the worship




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#54 15 years ago
Archangel85"balance" as in "lets just make it the same vehicle with different models and skins" can't be it. I agree that the Pnz IVD sucks really bad, but so it did in real life. Is a realism based mod supposed to make a battle fair at the sake of historical accuracy? If a battle was won in the past, then a mod should give the same circumstances (maybe a bit recalculated, since players don't have an age-long training in using the weapon or like the russians, no training in doing so). If the historical looser wins in the end, it should be because of good teamwork, not because it had two players that could handle a tank better than the rest of the enemy. During WWII, nobody on Ohmaha stood up and said: "That is so unfair, you mean spawncampers!" Historical outcomes usually tend to make the players of the winning side leaning back because "we can not loose". When the opposing team works closely together (and with that I mean repairing a tank without being told so, covering people without being asked to etc), it can beat them. On hailar once, the russians had T34s and semiautomatic rifles vs. Karabines and chi-Has. Historical correct would be an astounishing russian victory, compleatly annihilating the japanese. We were defeated soundly. The japanese simply crushed us.

I am not, nor have I ever, suggesting(ed) that the team do a 'cookie-cutter with different models' tank format. I suggested that in the interest of gameplay and fun, that the more useless of vehicles be lessened in favor of something that makes a difference against the enemy (6) t-34s. And a T-34-85. The Tiger is definately one, but a lot of noobs will just drive around aimlessly not checking that damn hill, and it takes one T34 on that hill to shoot down and hit the top of the Tiger to kill it. Pub play does not feature a large amount of teamwork or skilled players. And those aspects should never be part of level or vehicle design for any game. It's a variable that is too wide and will only make for imbalance.




FreakNasty

Singlehearted

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7th October 2003

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#55 15 years ago
'[CNIOhioan']I am not, nor have I ever, suggesting(ed) that the team do a 'cookie-cutter with different models' tank format. I suggested that in the interest of gameplay and fun, that the more useless of vehicles be lessened in favor of something that makes a difference against the enemy (6) t-34s. And a T-34-85. The Tiger is definately one, but a lot of noobs will just drive around aimlessly not checking that damn hill, and it takes one T34 on that hill to shoot down and hit the top of the Tiger to kill it. Pub play does not feature a large amount of teamwork or skilled players. And those aspects should never be part of level or vehicle design for any game. It's a variable that is too wide and will only make for imbalance.

I think the FH team is making a completely new Kursk map with various vehicles on both sides. Also in all the other maps will be some vehicles, that were just not finished for 0.5d. So don't worry and keep waiting for 0.6,... and let's see how it turns out then.




Saruman

GF makes me horny

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29th September 2003

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#56 15 years ago

And it works always. The Panzer IVD was able to kill an T34, i do it with two shots and the T34 had only the time to shoot one time at me and he hit me but, and that is the difference, he hit me in the front of my tank and then the Panzer IV D is able to bear two shots of an T34.

But when you drive an Panzer IV C and you spot an enemy tank you have only one chance to survive, bail out lie down and hide you.

In real life( i mean the past ) the tank commanders spot an enemy tank....... then he give the driver the order to act out at the enemy tank not front but in angle between 10 and 80 degree because the penetrating power depends also on the impact angle of the bullet. That means a bullet who hit a tank with an angle of 90 degree will break throug the armor when the same bullet hit the tank with an angle of 50 degree it will bounced of the armor.

But in FH...... when you spot an enemy tank you MUST act out your front to the enemy....... and so you have a little chance to kill him bevor he kill you !

By the way when you read the "Tank how to do" where was posted in this forum some threads befor you will understand how you must use a tank in FH....

1. learn what for kind of tank you drove f.e. don't attack an T34/85 with an Panzer IV A - D you will have no chance against him not matter where do you hit them, he will kill you first. f.e. don't drive with an Panzer IV A - D on the front of an Tank column execpt for you will going to be cannon fodder f.e. don't try to capture a flag with tanks ........... thats impossible (or it was the beginning of the fight) or you play on an server with loopy noobs on it then you have a chance....... f.e. don't drive an Panzer IV A- D like an racing car ........ yeah im the frist on the finish......... maybe you had won the race but you lose your life .......

2. sneak and hide forward.......... when you spottet ann enemy tank act out your Tank aigainst him.......... then wait ( when you have the time to wait ) till you see the side or rear of the enemy tank and then shoot ........

and and and ............




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#57 15 years ago

Errrr.....i only read once in all post above why exactly the panzer IV with the short barrel "sucks"

It was build to fight INFANTRY as an infantry support tank, it fired High Explosive shells from a low velocity 75 mm cannon to be effective to combat infantry.

So if you trying to fight tanks with that......sure it sucks, and it is 100 % realism too.

The panzer III was the tankfighting tank at the time, with up to 50 mm anti tank cannon. It is not (yet?) in FH, but it should by all means, so you can have tankfighting tanks. But it won't help you in russia......the Panzer III was hopelessly outmatched by the T34.

The reason the panzer IV was eventually equipped with a big anti tank cannon and heavier armour is that the Panzer III chassis and turret could not be upgraded, the light and small tankdesign would not allow it. The Panzer IV was built diffrently and the chassis was lengthened, so it could carry better armour, a heavier turret and a bigger gun. The version H was however a stopgap solution to face tanks like the T34, it was not equal to the T34.

Because many that only know the T34 from bf1942 and FH as a weak target, it is not well known in real WWII the T34 was a supertank for over a full year the germans had no answer to. The T34 you all laugh about in bf1942 and FH was their greatest nightmare......The germans were desperate and had to rely heavily on tank destroyers and anti tank field guns that were the only weapons that had cannon large enough to effectively fight T34. Only with the appearance of the tiger and the panther they had tanks that could effectively fight it.

You could say the T34 won the war on the east front......the germans only could bring tanks to fight it effectively when they were allready losing.

You can find stuff like this in war history books or sites like achtung panzer!




sempai(be)

Addicted to GF

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1st October 2003

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#58 15 years ago
Beast of War You can find stuff like this in war history books or sites like achtung panzer!

As if they really care , all those bunny hopping ,rifle , faust etc . . . .raping kiddies.

Well at least you're trying to point them the way and are not spamming the forum like others .

Keep those links coming BOW.




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#59 15 years ago
As if they really care , all those bunny hopping ,rifle , faust etc . . . .raping kiddies.

That is true, Sempai(be) but there are also people that want to lose that status and are really interested, but apperently don't know where to go.

Wasn't exactly a link but these are : ( btw don't only look at pictures but read the stories and the specs )

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm

If you really want to be credible complaining about a weapon or vehicle in FH, first read the specific site about that weapon or vehicle :

http://members.tripod.com/George_Parada/ww2lk.htm




Reeves

GF Pwns Me!

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24th September 2003

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#60 15 years ago

I don't know if this was already brought up since I didn't read the whole thread, but I noticed some of you saying that some particular panzer IV (the short barrel one) was a anti-infantry tank. I myself do not know much about this, but I do know that if it is a anti-infantry tank, then infantry should die if a shell lands 2 feet away from them, as they do not do currently in FH. Any reason for this?