Finland at WW2 -1 reply

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okiN

Duke

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26th August 2003

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#81 15 years ago

Yeah, with nuclear missile bases in Ireland. :D




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#82 15 years ago
CMSGT JohnsonPoint well said friend. :D All though a hypothetical mod based on the Soviets succeeding in gaining control of Europe, would make a VERY interesting cold-war scenario. :)

There already is one, C&C Red Alert :lol: :fistpunch: Seriously, you're giving Finland way too much credit. When would the soviets have been able to invade Germany? 1939? 1940? Lol, fat chance, the Soviet army was about as big as the german, and also their equipment was unmodern and outclassed against German equipment. If nothing else, the German navy would have prevented invasions from Finland... The Soviet modernization had just began when operation Barbarossa commenced.




Piispa

Dread thinks I'm a special person

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20th August 2003

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#83 15 years ago

What German navy? Germans had like 3 battleships few destroyers, and then the U-boats, which were at Atlantic... German open sea navy was in bad shape.. coz basicly they had NO open sea navy, only the submarines. Baltic Sea was used as training grounds for U-boats BECAUSE Finns repelled the Soviet invasion. Without that, Germans would've had a snowballs change in hell to use the Baltic sea.

And if my memory serves me well, the tide in Barbarossa turned in 1943... After that the Germans were retreating... Now, D-Day was 6.6.1944, once again if my memory is in good shape. At least a year for the Soviets to do what they wish.. and with Finland they could've landed troops right into German soil, waaay behind enemy lines. And how do you think the Germans would've got Leningrad surrounded even the bit they got if there were nothing but Soviets to the North? Impossible. And how could've they advanced with the speed they had from the South if the Norhten flank was open? Either they would've had to send more troops to north, and thus slower the advance in South.. or leave the North and risk beeing surrounded themselves when the Soviets breach their flanks from the North. And remember: the reason why Hitler attacked as early as 1941 is Finland's success in the Winter War. Without that, the operation would've been delayed maybe for a couple of years. And who knows in what kind of shape Soviet's army would've been then? And with a strong Northern flank with Finland under their fist.




Teuvo

NK

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13th July 2003

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#84 15 years ago

vote poll top of this page pliz :)




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#85 15 years ago

PiispaWhat German navy? Germans had like 3 battleships few destroyers, and then the U-boats, which were at Atlantic... German open sea navy was in bad shape.. coz basicly they had NO open sea navy, only the submarines. Baltic Sea was used as training grounds for U-boats BECAUSE Finns repelled the Soviet invasion. Without that, Germans would've had a snowballs change in hell to use the Baltic sea.

And if my memory serves me well, the tide in Barbarossa turned in 1943... After that the Germans were retreating... Now, D-Day was 6.6.1944, once again if my memory is in good shape. At least a year for the Soviets to do what they wish.. and with Finland they could've landed troops right into German soil, waaay behind enemy lines. And how do you think the Germans would've got Leningrad surrounded even the bit they got if there were nothing but Soviets to the North? Impossible. And how could've they advanced with the speed they had from the South if the Norhten flank was open? Either they would've had to send more troops to north, and thus slower the advance in South.. or leave the North and risk beeing surrounded themselves when the Soviets breach their flanks from the North. And remember: the reason why Hitler attacked as early as 1941 is Finland's success in the Winter War. Without that, the operation would've been delayed maybe for a couple of years. And who knows in what kind of shape Soviet's army would've been then? And with a strong Northern flank with Finland under their fist.

Lol, why the hell would they have landed troops behind enemy lines and be automaticly sorrounded??? And tell me, why would it be necessery to use Finnish naval bases for that, they had all the Baltic countries, they could just as easaly sailed from Riga or Tallin, wich is closer to Germany anyway!. Ofcourse such an attack makes no sense, how the hell would they bring supplies and reinforcments from such distances?? So the Germans had crappy navy, what do you think the Russians had, they definetly didn't have enough ships to send an army large enough to succsesfully invade and occupy Germany, ffs Why didn't the British and Americans or French just send an Invasion army right into Lübeck or something, think! And, as far as I remember, the soviet's hadn't driven out all Germans until later 1944, and Germany did have an Army group north remember? They allways had a northern Flank, and if Finland would have been conquered, they have had to station allot of troops there to keep control. Your theory have no facts whatsoever, it's just a theory.




Piispa

Dread thinks I'm a special person

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20th August 2003

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#86 15 years ago

And once again the need of research before post shows its importance. So plz, do some research. What did Stalin demand from Finland before the Winter War started? Lands from Karelian Isthmus to ensure Leningrad's safety AND naval bases from the islands on the Gulf of Finland and Finland mainland TO ensure the control over the Baltic Sea. What did Stalin demand when the peace treaty was signed after the Winter War? Karelian Isthmus to ensure Leningrad's safety AND naval bases from the islands on the Gulf of Finland and Finland mainland to ensure control over the Baltic Sea.

Why did Stalin want to control the Baltic Sea, and conquered additional lands from Baltic countries and tried to conquer Finland? To make a defensive barrier to take the first blow of the German advance and to slow them down effectively enough to make strong counter-attack later on. Soviets wanted to buy time. Yes, Germany had an Army group up north SIEGING Leningrad. After Leningrad, German advance in north was quite small. The main advance was definitely from the south.

And have you chekced maps lately? See the little thing called "Denmark" on the map just north of Germany? Now, check what lies just a little bit north from Denmark, past Sweden? That's "Norway". And who controlled both of these countries in WW2? That's the evil "Germany". It's on the map also. And how do you think the Brits or Yanks could've slipped an invadin naval troops between German occupied Denmark and Norway, when btw, that sea is kinda rich with islands and not very deep either, so I don't think any kind of large allied naval unit could zigzag effectively through there.

And yes, stationing troops in Finland would probably happened, probably enough troops to send reinforcements to Leningrad effectively and break the siege.

And of course it is just a theory. Finland never fell, so what else can it be than just a theory?




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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2nd May 2003

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#87 15 years ago

Sorry ofcourse I meant Hamburg wich is west of Denmark not Lübeck wich is east, wich means they wouldn't have to go through the Kattegatt/Öresund/Denmark Strait. I don't see how conquering Finland or controlling the Baltic Sea would slow down the Germans, they invaded on land afterall. I think Stalins demands came because he wanted it to be easier bringing Finland back to the Union. Anyway it's pretty useless argueing about something that didn't happen.




Piispa

Dread thinks I'm a special person

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20th August 2003

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#88 15 years ago
D-fenceAnyway it's pretty useless argueing about something that didn't happen.

Yes it is, so let's stop it here. History has been my hobby for a decade already, so it's my own theory after all, based on my own studies and research on WW2. Some might disagree, but for my research, I believe the fall of Finland in the Winter War would've made some great effect on the war, and the future of Europe.




Zab

BROtastic

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30th March 2003

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#89 15 years ago

so what other countries will be in fh? romania, norway? i think the addition of the finns will be great...it was quite an important part of ww2.