German Panther Ausf. D -1 reply

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ww2freak

Ingame name: Major.

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27th April 2003

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#41 15 years ago

I agree with Artie at one point:

FH SHOULD HAVE MORE ALLIED ARMOUR.

PERIOD.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#42 15 years ago

I think the Allies are well represented.

You have the Anmericans with the

M3 Stuart M4 Sherman M7 Priest M10 Wolverine M18 Hellcat M36 Jackson

Still need

M4A3E2(76) "Jumbo" M5 Stuart M24 Chaffee M26 Pershing

Brits have

Matilda I and II Crusader Cromwell Churchill Achilles(M10 with 17lbr) Sherman Firefly

About only things I dont see is a Archer Tank Destroyer Valentine Infantry Tank Bishop SP Gun

Russians have had several threads dedicated to tehir vehicles.




McGibs

FHdev

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3rd October 2003

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#43 15 years ago

Yeh, I'm starting to agree with art a bit here.

With the amount of russian maps (at least 2:1 to other front maps) the russians have dick all right now. The t34s are like shermans becuase they get worked by anything bigger then a pnzr4, the 85mm gun doest seem to make much diffrence. The only additions theyve had is 2 handguns and 2 planes so far. They are in desperate need of some new equipment.




the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

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28th September 2003

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#44 15 years ago

Nice remake!

Now this looks pretty realistic.




FryaDuck

All my base are belong to n0e

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30th September 2003

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#45 15 years ago

Yep thats a good Panther D.

As for armoured effectiveness the Russian site does explain a lot about poor Soviet weapons design. The 88 shows this in stark reality no other penetration was thru thru. We already know that the 100mm and larger guns could penetrate the KT but that only prove that the bigger the gun the better the penetration. For WWII balistics where AT is concerned the golden rule is if the gun caliber matches or exceeds the armour thickness it will penetrate.

This is the essense of the WWII Tank debate: logistics superiority vs technical superiority. The allies had a 6:1 logistics superiority when the axis had a 4-5:1 technical superiority. All the allies needed to do was pour in the troops and equipment, the germans had to maintain control of the battle field to retain strategic initiative and recover any losses. This was lost by the Germans at Kursk but it was a close run thing.

The germans pressed every serviceable tank, gun etc into service as you can see from newsreel footage and photographs. Whilst they held the battlefield neither the Soviets or the Western Allies could move forward. The germans were masters of the armoured counter attack.

I nearly 12 months of fighting the Germans took territory from the French Coast to Moscow (rough totals of the battles). It took the Allies three years to retake it. In the end the Allied losses were over 50 million (all causes) the Axis was 6 million. This also seems to correlate to allied to axis tank losses Stug 4:1, Pz III & IV 5:1, Panther 4.75: 1, Tiger 1 5:1, Tiger II 3:1.

Ultimately the logistics vs technical debate continued through the Cold War and this is where we find ourselves today. Western armour design is very high tech as compared to former Soviet and current Sino armour.




Blistex²

Repeat Sex Offender

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20th November 2003

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#46 15 years ago

McGibsYeh, I'm starting to agree with art a bit here.

With the amount of russian maps (at least 2:1 to other front maps) the russians have dick all right now. The t34s are like shermans becuase they get worked by anything bigger then a pnzr4, the 85mm gun doest seem to make much diffrence. The only additions theyve had is 2 handguns and 2 planes so far. They are in desperate need of some new equipment.

Quoted to emphasize importance:

Russians need IS-2's, KV-1's, KV-2's, and some SU-85's and SU-122's and possibly some Valentines.

Then possibly some more US and Brit tanks, and then we can move onto the Elefant, King Tiger, Jagdpanther, and Nashorn.

Edit: Although The game doesn't nearly represent the attrition that the soviets had to endure. (most of it was due to training).

Tank Losses Year.......German.......Soviet 1941.......2,758..........20,500 1942.......2,648..........15,000 1943.......6,362..........22,400 1944.......6,434..........16,900 1945.......7,382..........8,700*

(1945 figures also include losses on the Western front and losses due lack of fuel)




Gerl Francis

I'm too cool to Post

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25th September 2003

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#47 15 years ago

I'm Japanese BF fan, I think it nice in model, then I 'm most concerned about its color, but the number of D type was so small, so I have no information about its original color at Kususk in 1943.




Huffardo

Arrrr!

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29th November 2003

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#48 15 years ago

Kingtigers had a lot of problems with poor quality, but am I wrong if I say that there actually where some that had better armour (I think I have read it somewhere). IS-2 would have had a chance against it, but they had even worse steel. The IS-3 had better and thicker steel and a lot better design, and was undoubtedly at least as good as the KT. The only problem was that it was introduced only a couple of weeks before the end of the war in Europe. T-34/85 hadn't really so good chances against Panthers, but of course a big amount of sowiet losses was caused by the worse tactics and such things. And I would like to add a few tanks to the list earlier in this thread:

BT-2 T-70 IS-3 ISU-122 SU-152

And Mosin rifles would be great.

PS. M1-A1 Abrams is a crappy tank, but sadly it will soon be replaced with something better.




Blistex²

Repeat Sex Offender

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20th November 2003

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#49 15 years ago

The IS-3 is generally regarded as a parade tanks since none of them made it to the front in time to fight German Tanks and spent most of their time driving up and down Red Square.

Regarding the King Tiger, while it's true that compared to the Tiger I the standards were lowered due to allied bombing and time restraints it's still safe to say that a KT is gonna own an IS-2 in a one on one fight considering the only vehicle mounted weapon the allies had that could penetrate the KT's front hull was the british 17 pounder.

The Russians got penetrations in tests on the KT, but once you take a look at the methods used you can pretty well rule out their validity.