IL-2 WIP (Germans always gettin screens b4 us!!) -1 reply

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Piispa

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20th August 2003

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#121 15 years ago

Without Italy there wouldn't even been south flank (You know, it didn't match with Allied ideology to march over neutral countries, but through Italy they marched and really broke through the south flank0). Without Italy in the war (in which it did nothing but destruction for Germany) Germany could've concentrated more power to Soviet Union, and possibly even conquer the European side of it, and then, if needed, march to shake hands with Japanese.

And I'd like to hear how did the Germans need the Suez Canal?

Africa was a waste of time and resourses, caused by the Italians...




D-Fens

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2nd May 2003

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#122 15 years ago

The Italian objective was the Suez canal, the german was the oilfields in Iraq and Iran/Persia. Maybe the Italians wanted safe passage to their colonies in Somalia and newly conquerd Ethiopia? The British and Soviets Invaded Iran (Neutral, although beleived to be pro-german), and attempted german-supported rebellions in Iraq and Palestine was crushed by the british.




Kämpfer

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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27th April 2003

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#123 15 years ago

PiispaWithout Italy there wouldn't even been south flank (You know, it didn't match with Allied ideology to march over neutral countries, but through Italy they marched and really broke through the south flank0). Without Italy in the war (in which it did nothing but destruction for Germany) Germany could've concentrated more power to Soviet Union, and possibly even conquer the European side of it, and then, if needed, march to shake hands with Japanese.

And I'd like to hear how did the Germans need the Suez Canal?

Africa was a waste of time and resourses, caused by the Italians...

Now I disagree even though I did say it was a political front it still had strategic importance in getting to the middle east, pressuring Turkey to join the war with Axis, and going to the Caucases Mountains(sp?). It was a campaign destined to be lost for the most part, at some times 70% of its shippings were being sunk from British pilots at Malta and very little was done! Rommel was practically never reinforced in numbers until it was too late!




Piispa

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#124 15 years ago

Whole Africa campaing by German was only to fight the time. Western history tells a tale how Rommel's Afrika Corps was defeated in El Alamenin, but in truth Rommel never intended to win but to buy time. He was ordered to retreat from Africa, although he did think he could conquer the North Africa with just a little bit reinforcements, but Hitler disagreed because of the Operation Barbarossa. Now, if Hitler really wanted the oil in Iraq, why did he refuse to send reinforcements for Rommel, when Rommel himself did think he could win with reinforcements? Because Africa, and middle-east was not an importance for Germany. African front was opened by Italians, and they screwed it up.. Germany was needed to clean the mess but they wanted to keep the losses at minimum. The main strategical importance in Africa for Germany was the fact that it binded Allied troops there also and thus made the conquering of the Western Europe easier.




Archangel85

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30th June 2003

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#125 15 years ago

Rommel pleaded for reinforcements several times, and was turned down, because he was so sucsessfull with his limited recources. Hitler thought that he could accomplish his goal with what he had, since had already accived astounishing victories with very little material. At the Beginning, Hitler only wanted him to hold Africa to "secure the belly of europe", when Rommel pushed into Aegypt, he thought it to be a great idea to advance into the middle east and capture the oilfields., As always, he thought it to be possible with just the power of will. Obviously, he was wrong...




Kämpfer

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27th April 2003

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#126 15 years ago
Archangel85Rommel pleaded for reinforcements several times, and was turned down, because he was so sucsessfull with his limited recources. Hitler thought that he could accomplish his goal with what he had, since had already accived astounishing victories with very little material. At the Beginning, Hitler only wanted him to hold Africa to "secure the belly of europe", when Rommel pushed into Aegypt, he thought it to be a great idea to advance into the middle east and capture the oilfields., As always, he thought it to be possible with just the power of will. Obviously, he was wrong...

See with that you are practically agreeing that the African front was a political front!




Archangel85

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30th June 2003

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#127 15 years ago

every front is a political one... :rolleyes: and I never said otherwise.




Piispa

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20th August 2003

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#128 15 years ago

African front was useless and pointless front, an echo of the imperialistic days. It's main goal was to accomplish Mussolini's wet dream, only that Italians as soldiers had come a long journey from the Roman times... and Germans cleaned what there was left to clean...

From the beginning of his political career Hitler's goals have been in Soviet soil... Africa had never been any interest in Hitler's mind. It had no political value and it had absolutely no strategical value. Africa was the fantasy of Mussolini - nothing more, nothing less...




D-Fens

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#129 15 years ago

You are right about africa yes, but the middle east is hardly an insignificant goal.. and the only way to get there is either through caucasus or egypt...




Piispa

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#130 15 years ago

Middle-East is surtenly a goal worh fighting for, but the point I'm underlining here is that Africa, nor Middle-East, had NO value in German minds before Mussolini forced them to involve. After that, well it would be stupid to ignore a front your "allie" opened and where the enemy could easily strike against you. Which they actually did... As you probably already know, Allies did land into Italy way before D-Day and thus opening the European front again, and yet again Germans had to come to rescue, which actually caused the failure in Kursk (the German leader in Kursk, whose name I can't remember, begged Hitler for one more day and they would have a breakthrough, but Hitler said no and ordered the retreat due Allied landing in Italy). I'd say Italians were the main reason of Germany's defeat...