Infantry weapon imbalance -1 reply

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Infini7y

+LW[KgG]/|Cross

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12th March 2004

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#1 15 years ago

After playing FH for several days, I've come to conclusion that Axis infantry weapons are extremely poor compared to the allied infantry weapons. First, MP40 vs PPsh: An axis soldier shoots 10 rounds, several shots hit. During the engagement, the allied soldier who's getting shot at shoots his PPsh, killing the axis soldier. I tested out the damage done by each, along with accuracy, and PPsh is obviously superior in both categories. Also, PPsh has 71 bullets, which is historically correct, BUT, most axis players have to reload after emptying their weak bullets into the allied soldiers, while allied soldiers can effortelessly dispatch the axis soldiers. The same problem also goes for MP40 vs Thompson, any axis infantry who wishes to stay alive ALWAYs picks up the dead thompson gunner's kit. I always do that to stay alive. The last infantry weapon that seriously needs tweaking for balance is Garand rifle. It has the roughly the same damage compared to K98, while it's semi-auto with good accuracy. Axis players get slaughtered all the time from the 3 infantry weapons mentioned above. Please take balance into account when the next patch is developed, realism could only go so far until it damages balance issues. My 2 cents.




Sputty

Master of Kittens

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13th January 2004

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#2 15 years ago

I have no problem using the MP40, the Thompson, or the PPSH, all 3 need a quick burst to kill, except the MP40 sometimes can be used with single shots better. The K98 is more accurate than the Garand and the Garand has more kick, giving it a disadvantage at long range fighting, but giving it an advantage at short range, anyway, normally the first shot is all you need, and again this is a realism mod.




Big {Daddy}

Get in!

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2nd October 2003

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#3 15 years ago

I agree with the SMG's, especially the PPSH. I've yet to see Axis win Pavlov or Stalingrad (original), and we all know which weapon the Russians use. The Thompson seems pretty pokey too.




Dancing Jesus

Eats IS-2s for breakfast

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23rd November 2003

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#4 15 years ago

I would aggree on all counts of that statement except for the british: their #4 is on par with the k98 except it has 10 rounds instead of 5 and it has a faster bolt, but doesnt seem to be as powerful. The Sten is much less powerful than even an MP40, and the #2 revolver lacks semi auto so it kinda loses to the p38, tho I think it is more powerful. And BTW, the colt 1911 is better than the p38 too. All the machine guns in the game pretty much have the same power and accuracy attributes, tho I havent tested this, so I may be wrong. The only difference there seems to be is the amount in a clip. Though the german infantry has the panzerfaust along with the k98, it is more useless than a bazooka because the bazooka has more range. PIAT seems to be on par with faust tho...Anyone else wanna name comparisons/differences? Im tired




ManiK

Dance the dance of life!

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10th November 2003

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#5 15 years ago

After playing FH for several days, I've come to conclusion that Axis infantry weapons are extremely poor compared to the allied infantry weapons.

First, MP40 vs PPsh: An axis soldier shoots 10 rounds, several shots hit. During the engagement, the allied soldier who's getting shot at shoots his PPsh, killing the axis soldier. I tested out the damage done by each, along with accuracy, and PPsh is obviously superior in both categories. Also, PPsh has 71 bullets, which is historically correct, BUT, most axis players have to reload after emptying their weak bullets into the allied soldiers, while allied soldiers can effortelessly dispatch the axis soldiers.

The same problem also goes for MP40 vs Thompson, any axis infantry who wishes to stay alive ALWAYs picks up the dead thompson gunner's kit. I always do that to stay alive.

The last infantry weapon that seriously needs tweaking for balance is Garand rifle. It has the roughly the same damage compared to K98, while it's semi-auto with good accuracy. Axis players get slaughtered all the time from the 3 infantry weapons mentioned above.

Please take balance into account when the next patch is developed, realism could only go so far until it damages balance issues.

My 2 cents.

Ahem...FH=Realism mod (I don't know how many time I've said it :rolleyes: )

If you want the PPsh to be balanced with the MP40 you might as well go back to vanilla BF, the axis have superior tanks than the Russians or Americans, you aren't complaning about those. In FH teamwork will prevail,you cant go up against someone with a superior weapon alone, you have to ambush him or take him out with superior numbers, tactics is the word my friend. FH isnt going to make the MP40 more powerful than it was or make the PPsh have 30 rounds for balance.




C38368

...burning angel wings to dust

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14th February 2004

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#6 15 years ago

Bear in mind that realism and balance do not necessarily go hand in hand. Even so, some thing seem amiss (can you honestly say that the average human being will survive a shot to the chest from a Thompson at 10 feet?), not that I'm an expert in ballistics or anything...




Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#7 15 years ago

What is stopping you as german to pick up PPSH kits from fallen russian soldiers ?

The real german soldiers threw away their MP40 for PPSH too :D




McGibs

FHdev

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3rd October 2003

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#8 15 years ago

Germans LOVED the ppsh 41s.

Reality: mp40 sucked compared to other SMGs. Pssh fired way faster, had more rounds, and was more accurate. The Tommy gun shot .45 cal slugs, which should put someone down with 1 or 2.

If you want all the SMGs to be balanced, go play something else. I think theyr fine right now (with the exeption of the Ppsh needing a wee bit of tweaking)

The garand was known as the rifle that won the war (mainly because it was american :p) but it was a very good service rifle. It was accurate and had a fast rof. The G43 and SVT40 are just as good as the garand.

Germans more then make up for thier crappy SMGs with thier far supperior MGs (they have HMG and emplaced mgs EVERYWHERE) as well as uber armor.

Just because one thing isnt balanced doesnt mean its not fixed by something else. maybe you shoulda thought of that.




Artie Bucco

Guey>Tio(a)

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27th April 2003

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#9 15 years ago

Germans sure as hell did love PPsh 41s. Look at it this way SMGs in WWII were always in high demand and the use of captured Sub machine guns occured on both Axis and Allied Sides.

Advantages of the PPsh 41 over the MP 40. -Wooden stock was more comfortable (particularly in the Winter) to fire than the folding stock of the MP 40 -Avalibility of ammo: as German supply lines were extened, German soldiers could not always count on a steady supply of 9mm ammo, but there was always lots of 7.62 TT ammo to go around -900 rounds per minute vs 500 -71 round drum magazine and 35 round box magazines compared to the 32 round box magazines of the MP 40 -PPsh 41 was made of 4 main parts and could be dissasmbelled without a screwdriver.

PS maybe FH should include a MP 717 (r) (German designation for unmodifed PPsh 41s) as a pick up kit for the Germans.




TigerTeufel

[11PzG]

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13th October 2003

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#10 15 years ago

ManiK_ImpressiveAhem...FH=Realism mod (I don't know how many time I've said it :rolleyes: )

If you want the PPsh to be balanced with the MP40 you might as well go back to vanilla BF, the axis have superior tanks than the Russians or Americans, you aren't complaning about those. In FH teamwork will prevail,you cant go up against someone with a superior weapon alone, you have to ambush him or take him out with superior numbers, tactics is the word my friend. FH isnt going to make the MP40 more powerful than it was or make the PPsh have 30 rounds for balance.

This is far from realism with small arms though, theres no way people take 3-4 shots and keep standing. The MP40 was strengthed in 0.5 but its still understrengthed compared to the thompson and ppsh. And after all its not a true realism mod, its as close to realism as you can get given the games limitations. I understand why axis have a heard time dealing with this but after awhile its very frustrating when your constantly getting the drop on the other player but they are killing you first.

Alot of people do complain about balancing i.e. panzerfaust panzerfaust panzerfaust. I mean we all heard people crying about this. It was a little crazy in 0.5 but I do not believe it takes 8 seconds to aim the damn thing. Remember bazooka 2 man team, panzerfaust 1. The panzerfaust should take 1/2 the time the bazooka does.

One problem I have with the PPsh is this, I had a Sturmgewehr which fires a shortened rifle cartridge not a pistol cartridge yet it still took usually atleast 2 hits (and no my aiming is not the problem, if you dont believe me test it for yourself) to kill an allied player, where as ppsh all you have to do is generally aim in the direction you think the axis player is and 1 hit and its done. Some people like this system some hate it.

The solution for this problem in my opinion is 2 hits from a pistol cartridge and 1 hit from a rifle cartridge. I know people are gonna complain about how you wouldnt be killed if you got shot in the foot or the hand, and that's true, but 1 or 2 hits respectively solves the whole problem. Getting shot means your a casulty and therefore unable to continue the fight.

Ok here come the flames... :nodding: