King tiger not so strong... -1 reply

Please wait...

the Darkness VIP Member

Advanced Member

50 XP

20th October 2002

0 Uploads

1,333 Posts

0 Threads

#111 15 years ago

The Panther tanks were/are elegant and agile just like a ballerina. That's the best way to describe them. But I'm more of a bull in a china shop kinda person. And there was no bigger bull in the field that the JadgTiger. And the Elefant was the tank destroyer version of the Tiger, but I think it had the same gun as the Tiger.....I could be wrong though. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm always willing to listen and learn. BTW: How many miles/kms is 22410 meters. I don't convert meters very well.:uhm:




the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

50 XP

28th September 2003

0 Uploads

656 Posts

0 Threads

#112 15 years ago

Beast of War

The tiger and king tiger were strong tanks, but not super tanks.

They were strong tanks, they were also the most feared tanks during WWII. And they can be designated as Supertanks, too.

Sure they weren´t invincible due to the fact that some of them were disabled, but

1. Most of those were disabled by aircrafts

2. Enemy tanks suffered heavy losses by these and this should not be ignored.

And fact is also, that some people still try to discredit this, and this is very irritating, yet provoking.




the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

50 XP

28th September 2003

0 Uploads

656 Posts

0 Threads

#113 15 years ago
SniperWolfen BTW: How many miles/kms is 22410 meters. I don't convert meters very well.:uhm:

13.9253 miles!

1 mile = 1.6093 km = 1609.3 metres




the Darkness VIP Member

Advanced Member

50 XP

20th October 2002

0 Uploads

1,333 Posts

0 Threads

#114 15 years ago
the_move13.9253 miles! 1 mile = 1.6093 km = 1609.3 metres

Curvature of the earth only allows a person to see 14 miles (on flat ground) so this tank could kill another tank as soon as it came into view.:dropsjaw: I knew it was a monster, but |)4M|\|!




Beast of War

Born to kill

50 XP

28th May 2003

0 Uploads

2,698 Posts

0 Threads

#115 15 years ago
They were strong tanks, they were also the most feared tanks during WWII. And they can be designated as Supertanks, too.

You fail to see "the most feard tank during WWII" in a proper time line. German soldiers had no answer to the T34 for a full year !! Only AT field guns and aircraft could take them out, at that time. German soldiers feared the T34 for a long time !

As a result the Panther was designed and rushed into service, and the tiger rushed into service, aswell as several stopgap tank destroyer designs ( with larger guns then tanks could handle at the time ) The rushed service can be held greatly acountable for the poor reliability of german late war tanks.

All probably know the Panther was heavily influenced by the T34 wich it had to counter, german tanks up to then didn't have sloping armour, including the tiger wich was built like a bigger model Panzer IV. The first prototype Panther even looked exactly like a T34, with the turret mounted more to the front, it was only bigger then a T34. Because of this the turret was placed in the middle again, to prevent being fired upon by friendly tanks, confusing it for a T34 !

The T34 was the tank that turned the tide of the battle for the russians, it stopped the germans when they had nothing to counter it, and it was so numerous they couldn't counter it anymore when they did have tanks that could take it down.

If you like tanks and their design, don't stare blind on a few german ones, but study those of other countries too.......you might be surprised what you didn't know......




the_move

Frisch, Fromm, Fröhlich, Frei!

50 XP

28th September 2003

0 Uploads

656 Posts

0 Threads

#116 15 years ago

Beast of WarYou fail to see "the most feard tank during WWII" in a proper time line. German soldiers had no answer to the T34 for a full year !! Only AT field guns and aircraft could take them out, at that time. German soldiers feared the T34 for a long time !

Right, it all belongs to countermeasures.

But only the old Panzer IV D was obsolete to the T34.

The TIGER, Panther, and Panzer IV H however made the T34 obsolete very soon. So I doubt that the Russians had the upper hand SOOO LOOONG (1 year so far)

Further the Faustpatrone - able to crack 140 mm of steel was strong enough for the T34 as well.

Funny is although the Germans had no superior tanks to the T-34 (the Russian´s "Sherman M4") they managed "Operation Barbarossa" quite successful till Winter 41.




striderx2048

DiCE/EA: Ambiguously Gay Duo

50 XP

16th May 2002

0 Uploads

2,073 Posts

0 Threads

#117 15 years ago

so lets have some maps where the germans are the underdog with crappy vechiles.




Artie Bucco

Guey>Tio(a)

50 XP

27th April 2003

0 Uploads

3,682 Posts

0 Threads

#118 15 years ago

the_moveRight, it all belongs to countermeasures.

But only the old Panzer IV D was obsolete to the T34.

The TIGER, Panther, and Panzer IV H however made the T34 obsolete very soon. So I doubt that the Russians had the upper hand SOOO LOOONG (1 year so far)

Further the Faustpatrone - able to crack 140 mm of steel was strong enough for the T34 as well.

Funny is although the Germans had no superior tanks to the T-34 (the Russian´s "Sherman M4") they managed "Operation Barbarossa" quite successful till Winter 41.

Faustpatrone didn't start cracking armor until 1943 and it still took an incredibly brave guy to get 30 meters or closer to a tank.

The Tiger and Panther were better yes, but the Panzer IV h was introduced the same time the T34/85 was introduced so while it is better than the T 34/76 it is matched by the T34/85. Keep in mind that Tigers and Panthers were not as common as the PZ IV sieres which IMO makes the T34 a better tank. Operation Barbarossa suceded at first because of Stalin's purges and the fact that the Russian frontline tanks were of poor quality. The russians however counted the German Blitzkrieg the only way it could be countered retreating to your center leaving your dead and your supplies behind.




Beast of War

Born to kill

50 XP

28th May 2003

0 Uploads

2,698 Posts

0 Threads

#119 15 years ago

the_moveRight, it all belongs to countermeasures.

But only the old Panzer IV D was obsolete to the T34.

The TIGER, Panther, and Panzer IV H however made the T34 obsolete very soon. So I doubt that the Russians had the upper hand SOOO LOOONG (1 year so far)

Further the Faustpatrone - able to crack 140 mm of steel was strong enough for the T34 as well.

Funny is although the Germans had no superior tanks to the T-34 (the Russian´s "Sherman M4") they managed "Operation Barbarossa" quite successful till Winter 41.

I'd say dive in a library and find out.....

Stalin had killed a lot of capable officers in all ranks he saw as a political threat. He really did that on a large scale. Because of his army after that consisted of inexperienced (maybe even incapable) loyal to the regime officers, it wasn't very battleready when the german attacked. Because Stalin knew very well, he had severly weakend his army, he signed a non agression pact with germany before the war. He even co- operated with germany attacking poland, wich had to deal with two large fronts, wich it ofcourse could not.

The first days of the attack the russians were in total confusion, not able to do anything let alone fight back with determination. Stalin at first didn't even believe the reports and thought he was being betrayed or set up by his own officers.

That is why they came that far initially.....

The reason why germans did not have an answer to the T34 for a year is because of the blitzkrieg going so well they gave low priority to designing new tanks. The main force that invaded France consisted of weak early war german tanks that weren't all that good, save very limited numbers of all new Panzer III and IV. they would have stood no chance against the french tanks had they been more numerous and deployed better. But the stuka's made up for it, thus concealing the fact that they were inadequate.

In the deserts that first became clear, rommel used flak 88 offensively on a large scale for his tank battles, simply because the tanks weren't good enough.

The Panzer III was the main battle tank when germany attacked russia, but it was too weak and couldn't hold a bigger gun. That's why the Panzer IV changed from an infantry support tank to a main battle tank, it could hold bigger (AT) guns and more armour untill new tanks arrived......and these didn't arrive in a few months, they were still being developed, tested and produced in numbers....that takes time, and they were very late to do so.




Artie Bucco

Guey>Tio(a)

50 XP

27th April 2003

0 Uploads

3,682 Posts

0 Threads

#120 15 years ago
Beast of WarIn the deserts that first became clear, rommel used flak 88 offensively on a large scale for his tank battles, simply because the tanks weren't good enough.

A little known fact is that Rommel first used 88s in Arras France. The British deployed a large amount of Matilda Is and some IIs to attack the Germans in the area the attacks were sucesfull at first but they were beat back by 88s. The Battle of Arras is one of the reasons why the Germans were reluctant to attack the allies at Dunkirk.