Operation Goodwood (Omaha follow up) -1 reply

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Tommy8kins

GF Pwns Me!

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12th October 2003

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#1 16 years ago

The yanks get a lot of attention for Omaha. Nothing to be taken away from that. But the British and Canadians were there too! This battle would make a fine map for FH. Consider; The map could have Typhoons and lots of tanks for the allies. For the Axis they should be armed with '88s and flak guns. It would make an interesting fight. (taken without permission from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Goodwood) After the early successes of the Battle of Normandy the Allied advance had come to a halt. The key town of Caen was not taken on the first day as planned and over a month later it was still in German hands. The bocage landscape of Normandy was a serious impediment to attacking operations but the clearer land to the east, between Caen and Vimont, looked more promising. The largest armoured assault yet seen in western Europe was planned as Operation Goodwood for July 18. Allied armour from the 2nd Army was chosen to lead the attack, and though it was expected to be costly, certain commanders had high hopes of a breakthrough. The main force would be the armoured divisions of the VIII Corps: the 11th, the 7th and the Guards. The 11th's targets were Bras, Hubert-Folie, Verrieres, and Fontenay; the 7th's Garcelles-Secqueville; and the Guards would push through around Cagny and Vimont. The target was to push the Germans from the higher ground of the Bourguebus Ridge. A Canadian force would cover the east flank and British infantry the west flank. The plan was developed by Miles Dempsey and was approved by the commander-in-chief Bernard Montgomery on July 10.

The Allied attack had certain problems from the onset: the armour had to cross the Orne River and the Caen Canal to reach the battle ground but to move too early would alert the Germans to the attack. In hindsight we can see that the armour moved too late: the thousands of tanks were horribly slowed by the bottle-neck of the three Orne bridges and when they reached the battle area they ran into another problem. The entire area had been heavily mined, not just by the Germans but by the Allies too -- in the weeks after the June landings great areas had been mined and not marked, leading to the leading Allied force, the 11th Division, running into Allied anti-tank mines. A more serious problem was that the terrain was not as advantageous as hoped and the area was filled with small villages, each of which had a small German garrison of infantry, armour and artillery. The area was thus divided into a series of strongpoints overlooking the intended Allied line of advance.

The pre-attack bombardment was undertaken by almost 1,000 heavy and medium bombers dropping over 15,000 bombs. The German positions to the east of Caen were carpet-bombed and many of the villages were reduced to rubble, severely disrupting the German defenses and initially reducing the German soldiers to stunned, unresisting groups.

Early advances by the Allied armour were taken under a creeping barrage but were slow, despite encountering little resistance. By the time the Caen-Vimont railway was reached the Germans had regrouped. The Fife and Forfar Yeomanry lost twelve tanks at Cagny when 88mm AA guns were turned on them: a single hit on a Sherman was usually sufficient to reduce it to a burning wreck. The Allies slowly pushed through and crossed the railway line to approach the German-held ridge at Bourgebus, where they encountered the 21st Panzer Division and the 1st SS Panzer Division. Over seventy Shermans were destroyed before the Allies withdrew. The German armour counter-attacked around evening and fighting continued along the high ground and around Hubert-Folie until the 19th, by which time any chance of a breakthrough was lost. In all the Allies had extended their control over an extra seven miles to the east of Caen and destroyed over 100 German tanks, for the loss of 413 tanks and over 5,500 men. The action did however give the US operation codenamed Cobra a greater chance of success.




RPGreg2600

I shot down MG42Maniac

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25th October 2002

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#2 16 years ago

The americans get the most attention because they got the two wors beaches of the invasion.

And no, I didn't read all of your post since I don't have time right now (gotta be at work pretty soon) but The more maps the better, so I'd say yes, they should make a Operation Goodwood map.




Wiking9

I want to be like Revenge

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4th August 2003

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#3 16 years ago

I've already researched and put together an Operation Goodwood:Caen map when I was with Flatline44. WE modeled the Ardenne Abbey church, and included specific ouposts that Captain Kurt Mayer of the 12 Panzer SS Hitlerjugend utilized....Carpiquet Airfield was introduced, and well as several of the factories to the east of Caen..

Its been passed over to FH after Bogomil left FL44....




Witch Hunter General

Dread thinks I'm a special person

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19th May 2003

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#4 16 years ago

RPGreg2600The americans get the most attention because they got the two wors beaches of the invasion.

no, they got attention because they screwed up.




bmargb

BF 1936 TEAM

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31st August 2003

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#5 16 years ago
RPGreg2600The americans get the most attention because they got the two wors beaches of the invasion.

That is not true. The two worst beaches were Omaha(USA) and Juno(Canada).

Statistics:

Omaha -> 44.000 soldiers reach the beach and 2200 casualities. 1 casualitie for each 19 soldiers

Juno-> 21.400 soldiers reach the beach and 1200 casualities. 1 casualitie fo each 18 soldiers




McGibs

FHdev

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3rd October 2003

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#6 16 years ago
no, they got attention because they screwed up.

Bingo.

Omaha wasnt even the most difficult beach to take. It wasnt as steep or heavily defended as the others.




leadmagnET

I don't spend enough time here

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6th October 2003

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#7 16 years ago

McGibsBingo.

Omaha wasnt even the most difficult beach to take. It wasnt as steep or heavily defended as the others.

Not to mention the fact their DD tanks sank(as all self respecting tanks should do when placed in deep water really)




Tommy8kins

GF Pwns Me!

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12th October 2003

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#8 16 years ago
leadmagnETNot to mention the fact their DD tanks sank(as all self respecting tanks should do when placed in deep water really)

We should respect the American soldiers that so bravely fought at Omaha and elsewhere in WW2. Nuthin more to be said. We do not have to respect that arse hole Spielberg and Hollywoods re-writing of history. Saving Private Ryan acts like no one else was there. Memphis Belle was originally a Lancaster Bomber and British crew but the author allowed it to be changed. U252 (bugger cant remember correct name) was so bad and so annoying I never watched it because NO WAY the Americans found or cracked Enigma, and on and on. I also just read D-Day by Stephen Ambrose, man that guy is ignorant and offensive. He's the one that wrote Band-Of-Brothers. Take a look at the comments on his book here; http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743449746/qid=1065995287/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_3_2/202-7312194-5343028 (scroll down) I work for an American company and its really scary that so many Americans are so ignorant that A. Hollywood re-writes history (wrongly) and B. that this is so offensive to so many Europeans. Not to mention Canadians. Those good guys fought and contributed a huge amount - who will tell their story? Anyway if a map of Goodwood could be made that would be awesome. So far all the Brits have here is Arnhem.




Wiking9

I want to be like Revenge

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4th August 2003

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#9 16 years ago

The Operation we put together utilized Royal Tank regiments stroming over the bridges of the Orne, right into the destroyed city. We decided not to feature any Lancasters in this map, and just feature the destroyed city that the 12 Panzer SS Hitlerjugend were trying to desperatly to defend...PanzerIV varients that defended the city sat atop Verriers Ridge, and literally pummeled British/Canadien infantry and armor..

Beregil is working on it right now, as far as I know.




SensesFail

The Internet ends at GF

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28th September 2003

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#10 16 years ago
Tommy8kinsWe should respect the American soldiers that so bravely fought at Omaha and elsewhere in WW2. Nuthin more to be said. We should *NOT* respect that arse hole Spielberg and Hollywoods re-writing of history. Saving Private Ryan acts like no one else was there. Memphis Belle was originally a Lancaster Bomber and British crew but the author allowed it to be changed. U252 (bugger cant remember correct name) was so bad and so annoying I never watched it because NO WAY the Americans found or cracked Enigma, and on and on. I also just read D-Day by Stephen Ambrose, man that guy is an ARESHOLE. He's the one that wrote Band-Of-Brothers. Take a look at the comments on his book here; http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743449746/qid=1065995287/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_3_2/202-7312194-5343028 (scroll down) I work for an American company and its really scary that so many Americans are so ignorant that A. Hollywood is full of shit and B. that this is so offensive to so many Europeans. Not to mention Canadians. Those good guys fought and contributed a huge amount - who will tell their story? Anyway if a map of Goodwood could be made that would be awesome. So far all the Brits have here is Arnhem.

man...you think American films are ignorant...last night I was watching this movie on the Avro Arrow with Dan Akroyd...it was a Candian feel good movie and also the most biased piece of shit I've ever seen...

they showed the arrow going mach 1.9 in a climb at 44,000 ft...the only plane that can even go mach 1 in a climb is an F15 Eagle with full afterburners...and they showed the Americans and English as the "assholes" who admired the Canadians and tried stealing their plane...not to mention it had bad acting...

You have to remember bro...Steven Spielberg makes American films...these aren't documentaries or educational films...their created to incite interest in the American people...not to make Candians feel good...so ofcourse they are going to to be biased in that they are from the American viewpoint...

your candian movies are exactly the same...the only difference is is that Hollywood produces reknowned stuff so it gets a lot more flak from people like you that put down Americans for creating American movies...

If you want realism...watch a documentary...if you want a story-line movie watch something from hollywood or your own Candian movie studios...all I'm trying to say is that us Americans aren't the only ones making biased movies...its just that Hollywood became really popular somehow so it is the first to be critiqued...

And Stephen Spielberg...Stephen F. Ambrose are great authors (Ambrose) and directors (spielberg)...but thats what they are...they aren't historians...if they were historically accurate they wouldn't be as popular as they turned out to be...

And I don't know what your talking about with the Memphis Belle...it was the first B17 and crew to complete all 25 missions in Europe...The name was after Memphis (Major Tennessee City) and Belle (The Pilots wife who was living in Memphis)...I don't see why a British crew would have women back in the states?

here's a link for proof: http://www.memphisbelle.com/

MAIN IDEA: IT'S AMERICAN MEDIA...ITS GOING TO BE IN THE AMERICAN VIEWPOINT AND STRIKE AMERICAN INTERESTS...THESE FILMS ARE NOT DOCUMENTARIES OR HISTORICAL PIECES...THEY ARE FICTION STORIES AROUND REAL LIFE EVENTS...I DON'T SEE WHY YOU GUYS GET MAD THAT AMERICANS ARE WRITING THE AMERICAN VIEWPOINT AND EXCLUDING THE CANDIANS...AMERICANS ARE FOCUSING ON AMERICANS ON THESE FICTION STORIES BECAUSE AMERICANS ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH AMERICANS...CANADIANS DON'T ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH AMERICANS SO THEY GET PISSED...IF YOU WANT UNBIASED LITERATURE...READ NON-FICTION HISTORICAL DOCUMENTARIES (PROBABLY WRITTED BY THE PERSON OF YOUR OWN NATION)...