The flag capper and the 1337 killer : who is the most usefull for his side ? -1 reply

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Beast of War

Born to kill

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28th May 2003

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#1 16 years ago

A server has a certain map set for 400 tickets each side. The map has 5 cappable flags, the automatic ticket drain does not start for the attacking side untill all flags are capped.

A pilot strafes, bombs and shoots enemy aircraft out of the sky at a high rate.....at the end of the round he got 40 kills. Due to ground fire and enemy fighters and piloting errors he got 4 deaths. Plane campers FF/TK during reload/repair kills him 3 times. He by error strafes a friendly infantry player that was driving an enemy apc. The pilot takes no flags.

A ground player kills 24 enemies, and takes 10 flags that round. But the flags he captured are taken back 8 times. He also looses his life 6 times, due to enemy infantry and tanks, being run over 1 times by a friendly jeep and being strafed 1 time by above mentioned friendly pilot.

How much did both players contribute to their sides victory or defeat ?

Pilot :

40 kills = enemy ticket count = 360 own side ticket count = 400 4 deaths = enemy ticket count = 360 own side ticket count 396 3 FF/TK deaths = enemy ticket count = 360 own side ticket count 393 1 TK = enemy ticket count = 360 own side ticket count 392

Pilot score : 38/40/8

Total helped team win round : 40 points Total helped enemy win round : 9 points.

Ground player :

24 kills = enemy ticket count = 376 Own side ticket count = 400 10 flags = enemy ticket count = 356 Own side ticket count = 400 8 flags lost*= enemy ticket count = 356 Own side ticket count = 384 8 deaths= enemy ticket count = 356 Own side ticket count = 376

Ground player score : 34/24/8

Total helped team win round : 34 points Total helped enemy win round* : 16 points

* Because the ground player took 10 flags, he personally made it possible for the enemy to take them back and hurt his team in return 8 flags = 16 points. If he personally did not take any flags but the enemy did, there would have only been 5 flags to cap, the enemy would have hurted his team less ! 5 flags = - 10 tickets instead of -16 !

The automatic ticket drain in this map only starts untill all flags are taken, wich did not happen at any time in the round. Therefore holding and keeping only one flag would have given the enemy only 8 tickets won by capping flags the whole round....

If the enemy pool reaches 0, is lower then your sides pool when the timer runs out, or falls beneath a set minimum your side wins the round.

Lessons hopefully learned :

1) By killing a lot of enemies you help your team best, it is the fastest way to sink the enemy ticket pool. Taking a flag is worth 2 points once every (re)capture, but dependend on the map and defece skills of the enemy, it can take several minutes for flags to be recaptured. All this time no tickets are taken from the enemy ticket pool.

2) By taking more flags then you can hold and keep all round you are helping the enemy drain your sides ticket pool......they receive 2 tickets from any flag they recapture out of your side ticket pool.

3)Ticket pool wise* you should only take more flags then the minimum required to prevent an automatic ticket drain, by starting an autoamtic ticketdrain yourself. THis you do only if your side is strong enough to hold and keep all these flags.

4) It is possible to win a round on kills alone. For this you capture the minimum required flags to prevent an automatic ticket drain starting. Then you defend these points with all you got and not lose them the whole round. Defending a few points is easier then defending many points at once, defending too many points spreads your forces too thin resulting in recaptured flags.

* If that point has strategical placement on the map, or has important vehicles that comes before the ticket drain issue.




Clousseau

FHer since .5

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26th December 2003

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#2 16 years ago

Um anyone im not using my brain at this time :P




Ping_Pong

Rockin' the Casbah

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30th June 2003

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#3 16 years ago

Interesting.




Mast3rofPuppets Advanced Member

08'aIgnorance is not an excuse

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28th November 2003

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#4 16 years ago

Well a team needs both "l33t killers" and flag cappers. If a flag capper(s) captures all flags and kill all enemies you can win a map in 5 mins, and the killer helps the cap guy(s) to do so.




Eglaerinion

Vault Dweller

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22nd September 2003

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#5 16 years ago

Well capping flags does often give your team extra resources in terms of equipment, how do you calculate that in. An extra tank often gives your team the edge in combat.




Beast of War

Born to kill

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#6 16 years ago

Mast3rofPuppetsWell a team needs both "l33t killers" and flag cappers. If a flag capper(s) captures all flags and kill all enemies you can win a map in 5 mins, and the killer helps the cap guy(s) to do so.[/QUOTE]

That is the only thruth....

I posted it, because i am sick and tired of the many players whining everyone should cap flags or else they are not helping the team.

For whoever was brave enough going through that text i posted, discovered capping flags you cannot hold even backfires and is hurting your team....

In almost all games, it is not the flags that win rounds, but the total amount of kills. The only thing that can match total killrate of one side is the automatic ticket drain if a certain amount of flags has been captured. But that isn't often active long enough to take more tickets away then the total kills that were made by one side.

Checking that is very simple : look at the amount of starting enemy tickets, and at round end deduct all the kill scores of your side players from it. The remaining number are tickets lost to flags and some minor other penalties as own caused deaths and suicide.

The conclusion is simple : let snipers snipe, pilots fly, artillery gunners bombard and navy crews do battle at sea. As long as they are killing lots of enemies, they are just as or even more usefull as a flag capper. If they help capturing/defending a flag, they are even invaluable.

This game is not all about flags.......For a good game you only have to mind the enemy not getting too many of them, and if you get them, you better hold and keep them untill the end too.

[QUOTE=Eglaerinion]Well capping flags does often give your team extra resources in terms of equipment, how do you calculate that in. An extra tank often gives your team the edge.

The last line in my original post covered that....

Flags can be very important strategically, if that is the only point you can get artillery for example or if they provide a good point to control the enviroment. But extra vehicles at spawnpoints are almost always common and rather easy to destroy vehicles.

On top of that most flag cappers are after flags for their personal score, and will not stay to defend them but charge off to another flag. If the enemy does the same, and flag are captured and recaptured all the time, they are really not helping their team out. Each recapture by the enemy cost your side 2 points aswell, making the 2 point you gou from capping it have result = 0

If you capture a flag : ask reinforcements, defend and not lose it again. Then it was something you helped your team with.




Mast3rofPuppets Advanced Member

08'aIgnorance is not an excuse

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28th November 2003

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#7 16 years ago

Actually I have to thank you beast, ive never thought of the backfire thing before.




=Boche Buster=

Pro-Filer thinks I'm cool!!

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2nd May 2003

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#8 16 years ago

Good Points there: In Clan matches I always stress.. Only cap and hold enough flags to get the other sides ticket drain starting. That way you flags you hold have enough people defending to hold it well, and the other team is losing tickets through the drain and by deaths.




striderx2048

DiCE/EA: Ambiguously Gay Duo

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16th May 2002

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#9 16 years ago

hailer is an example. the japanese have a 200+ ticket advantage, and only needto have 2 of 3 flags for ticket drain. that all you need to do to win.




SimonS.

[11PzG] SimonS

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10th August 2003

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#10 16 years ago

Everykill in FH or any other game can affect anything that happens later in combat, you might have killed a guy , you think yeah so what It was just a useless infantry person, but he could of been a great tiger tank driver He could of killed 3 tanks and 20 infantry

Take this for example, I usually like to sneak up on cowardly snipers and knife them, so I was playing a game a few days ago, I was right behind him, yelling out voice commands before i knife him just to get his attention like I normally do, he didn't hear me so I kept yelling, then all of a sudden I get shot from behind from his buddy. Then I watched the sniper on death cam, he and his buddy got into our sherman and base camped, he killed about 7 people, now imagine if I killed him when I had the chance, none of that would of happened. Those 7 dead guys could have been -2 Pilot aces -1 Skilled engineer -3 Elite infantry men -1 Anti tank

Imagine what impact they could have on the enemy.....