COD firearms inaccuracies (technical). -1 reply

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Cleft-Asunder

I don't spend enough time here

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10th April 2004

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#1 14 years ago

Let me first mention that my intention is by no means to bash this game because frankly this is one hell of a game when played in realistic servers, and this game does A LOT of things right. Rather, I'm just going to point out some consistent inaccuracies in all the small arms in COD, primarily in the way ammo is tracked through them. If you don't like reading, or much less understanding, STOP NOW! Because you're going to have to do both here. And please don't post that "it's just a game, get a life" because if developers in general thought like that we wouldn't have games like COD or Half-Life since no efforts would be made. Now, to the post... Essentially, the chamber is non-existent in COD. The chamber is where the round that will fire next --or has already been fired in case of bolt-action small arms-- is located and is the rear of the barrel. In COD only the ammunition in the magazine exists, and then the magical pool of ammo that is your remaining supply. So let's use the M1911 A1 as an example. The magazine holds 7 rounds of .45 ACP, but the ammo capacity of the 1911 in total is actually 7+1l (or 8+1 with modern magazines, but they didn't have these in WWII). So why +1? +1 represents the round in the chamber which you can roughly think of as a magazine in itself. The magazine itself is just storage for extra rounds which are waiting in line to be fed into the chamber, at which point they can be fired through the barrel. So in the case of an un-loaded 1911, one could insert the 7 round magazine into the bottom magazine-well then pull the slide back and release. The top round of the magazine was fed into the chamber and there are 6 rounds remaining in the magazine, so the weapon is now 6+1. This is the standard ammunition load of the 1911. There are three ways to get an additional round in the 1911 (or mostly any other semi-auto/full-auto firearm): 1): Insert a round manually into the chamber when the slide is open and locked, then close the slide. At this point there is only 1 round in the weapon. Then insert a 7 round magazine into the magazine well. So the total now is 7+1, or 8 rounds total. 2): Insert a 7 round magazine into an unloaded 1911; pull the slide to chamber a round (which makes it 6+1); then remove the magazine and insert another round into the mag to make it 7 rounds instead of 6. So that's 7+1, or 8 rounds total again. 3): Then there is one last way, which is the "combat" way to do it and nothing is required of the user, and this is crucial to understand. When you start firing rounds out of a semi-auto or full-auto firearm and then release the trigger, there will always be a round in the chamber ready to be fired (unless you've used up all the ammo). So, let's say you've fired off 5 rounds out of 7 rounds total in the 1911, that gives you 1+1 rounds to work with. You want as many rounds as possible in case you run into an enemy. Running in with 2 rounds is risky, so what do you do? You do a tactical reload. To do a tactical reload you remove the near-empty magazine and insert one that has more rounds. You should NEVER wait until your firearm is empty before reloading, since that is risky. So you remove the magazine with 1 round in it, and place one with 7 rounds in it and ALWAYS the magazine with the most rounds available. So in this case you have a round in the chamber, and then the 7 in the magazine, or 8 rounds total again. So in the case of COD, the ammo tracking is quite wrong. You can never exceed 7 rounds in the 1911 because it doesn't keep track of the chamber round. Let's use the MP44 as another example. The maximum ammo capacity is 30 rounds right? Wrong. The maximum ammo capacity is 30+1, or 31 rounds. 30 rounds is the maximum magazine capacity. I'll cut to the chase: If you have 25 rounds left in the magazine after firing --which is actually 25+1-- and end up tactical reloading, the fresh 30 round magazine stacks BEHIND the 1 round you already have in the chamber, so you have 30+1 rounds of ammo now. However, if you emptied the magazine completely and fired the round in the chamber, putting in a 30 round magazine would leave you with just that, 30 rounds. At this point you would pull back the bolt-carrier to chamber the top round (29+1) However, no matter what, in COD you are capped at 30 rounds. In order to make the game work like described above, we would have to see a change in the ammo pool as well. The pool is unrealistic and I'm surprised the developers decided on it. Individual magazines should be tracked instead. For example, if you're carrying 8 full MP44 magazines and fire 14 out of one of the mags, then reload, you place the 16 round mag back into the magazine pouch for use later. so now you have 7 30-round magazines and 1 16-round magazine. I wonder if the developers intentionally designed it simplified, or never bothered to study how firearms actually work. I hope it's the former. I hope you learned something. There's more to tell about the bolt-actions, but I'm not in the mood.




gopaloo

people aren't ready for me.

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5th August 2004

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#2 14 years ago

in that piece of literature i call a waste of time, you mean that all weapons in CoD are wrong cuz they have one less round or something?

we at least have one thing in common. we both like tactical pllay.




Cleft-Asunder

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10th April 2004

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#3 14 years ago
gopalooin that piece of literature i call a waste of time, you mean that all weapons in CoD are wrong cuz they have one less round or something? we at least have one thing in common. we both like tactical pllay.

Thanks for calling it a waste of time, I really appreciate that. Since you seem to be an authority on time then please, I'm curious, what ISN'T a waste of time?




gopaloo

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5th August 2004

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#4 14 years ago
Thanks for calling it a waste of time, I really appreciate that. Since you seem to be an authority on time then please, I'm curious, what ISN'T a waste of time?

sorry for calling it a waste of time. im just having a bad day you see.....try cutting down most of it. but what was the point of that post, if u can tell me that?




Cleft-Asunder

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10th April 2004

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#5 14 years ago
gopaloosorry for calling it a waste of time. im just having a bad day you see.....try cutting down most of it. but what was the point of that post, if u can tell me that?

The point of the post is that COD is inaccurate on ammunition tracking, and to share some knowledge.




WiseBobo

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9th February 2004

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#6 14 years ago
Cleft-AsunderLet me first mention that my intention is by no means to bash this game because frankly this is one hell of a game when played in realistic servers, and this game does A LOT of things right. Rather, I'm just going to point out some consistent inaccuracies in all the small arms in COD, primarily in the way ammo is tracked through them. If you don't like reading, or much less understanding, STOP NOW! Because you're going to have to do both here. And please don't post that "it's just a game, get a life" because if developers in general thought like that we wouldn't have games like COD or Half-Life since no efforts would be made. Now, to the post... Essentially, the chamber is non-existent in COD. The chamber is where the round that will fire next --or has already been fired in case of bolt-action small arms-- is located and is the rear of the barrel. In COD only the ammunition in the magazine exists, and then the magical pool of ammo that is your remaining supply. So let's use the M1911 A1 as an example. The magazine holds 7 rounds of .45 ACP, but the ammo capacity of the 1911 in total is actually 7+1l (or 8+1 with modern magazines, but they didn't have these in WWII). So why +1? +1 represents the round in the chamber which you can roughly think of as a magazine in itself. The magazine itself is just storage for extra rounds which are waiting in line to be fed into the chamber, at which point they can be fired through the barrel. So in the case of an un-loaded 1911, one could insert the 7 round magazine into the bottom magazine-well then pull the slide back and release. The top round of the magazine was fed into the chamber and there are 6 rounds remaining in the magazine, so the weapon is now 6+1. This is the standard ammunition load of the 1911. There are three ways to get an additional round in the 1911 (or mostly any other semi-auto/full-auto firearm): 1): Insert a round manually into the chamber when the slide is open and locked, then close the slide. At this point there is only 1 round in the weapon. Then insert a 7 round magazine into the magazine well. So the total now is 7+1, or 8 rounds total. 2): Insert a 7 round magazine into an unloaded 1911; pull the slide to chamber a round (which makes it 6+1); then remove the magazine and insert another round into the mag to make it 7 rounds instead of 6. So that's 7+1, or 8 rounds total again. 3): Then there is one last way, which is the "combat" way to do it and nothing is required of the user, and this is crucial to understand. When you start firing rounds out of a semi-auto or full-auto firearm and then release the trigger, there will always be a round in the chamber ready to be fired (unless you've used up all the ammo). So, let's say you've fired off 5 rounds out of 7 rounds total in the 1911, that gives you 1+1 rounds to work with. You want as many rounds as possible in case you run into an enemy. Running in with 2 rounds is risky, so what do you do? You do a tactical reload. To do a tactical reload you remove the near-empty magazine and insert one that has more rounds. You should NEVER wait until your firearm is empty before reloading, since that is risky. So you remove the magazine with 1 round in it, and place one with 7 rounds in it and ALWAYS the magazine with the most rounds available. So in this case you have a round in the chamber, and then the 7 in the magazine, or 8 rounds total again. So in the case of COD, the ammo tracking is quite wrong. You can never exceed 7 rounds in the 1911 because it doesn't keep track of the chamber round. Let's use the MP44 as another example. The maximum ammo capacity is 30 rounds right? Wrong. The maximum ammo capacity is 30+1, or 31 rounds. 30 rounds is the maximum magazine capacity. I'll cut to the chase: If you have 25 rounds left in the magazine after firing --which is actually 25+1-- and end up tactical reloading, the fresh 30 round magazine stacks BEHIND the 1 round you already have in the chamber, so you have 30+1 rounds of ammo now. However, if you emptied the magazine completely and fired the round in the chamber, putting in a 30 round magazine would leave you with just that, 30 rounds. At this point you would pull back the bolt-carrier to chamber the top round (29+1) However, no matter what, in COD you are capped at 30 rounds. In order to make the game work like described above, we would have to see a change in the ammo pool as well. The pool is unrealistic and I'm surprised the developers decided on it. Individual magazines should be tracked instead. For example, if you're carrying 8 full MP44 magazines and fire 14 out of one of the mags, then reload, you place the 16 round mag back into the magazine pouch for use later. so now you have 7 30-round magazines and 1 16-round magazine. I wonder if the developers intentionally designed it simplified, or never bothered to study how firearms actually work. I hope it's the former. I hope you learned something. There's more to tell about the bolt-actions, but I'm not in the mood.

Everything stated is correct. However, I am sorry to tell you that the ammunition system in Call of Duty is not going to be changed. Call of Duty is supposed to be mindless mayhem, only vaguely representing realism. I suggest you play Red Orchestra, a total WWII Realism mod for Unreal Tournament 2004.




[TEK]Sven ImpACT

I'm Rick James Bitch!

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20th September 2004

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#7 14 years ago
The point of the post is that COD is inaccurate on ammunition tracking, and to share some knowledge.

Ok, First off...What the hell are you talking about Inaccurate amminition tracking, it's fine! and is almost identicle to tall the other wwII titles. Find one game that is different but keep in mind it must be realistic!




Thargh

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30th December 2006

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#8 14 years ago

hmmmmm...realistic eh? ummmm....NEWS FLASH!! it's a game. If you want realism, join the army. Otherwise, enjoy the game or don't play it. my .02




Revenge VIP Member

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28th July 2004

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#9 14 years ago
gopaloowe at least have one thing in common. we both like tactical play.

Me too.




Cleft-Asunder

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10th April 2004

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#10 14 years ago
WiseBoboEverything stated is correct. However, I am sorry to tell you that the ammunition system in Call of Duty is not going to be changed. Call of Duty is supposed to be mindless mayhem, only vaguely representing realism. I suggest you play Red Orchestra, a total WWII Realism mod for Unreal Tournament 2004.

Thanks BOBO, I hadn't heard of it before you mentioned it.




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