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WiseBobo

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9th February 2004

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#11 15 years ago
'[WOW}IRONMAN' Without a shoulder, any SMG is horribly inaccurate over any distance. Thus, the Germans raced to develop the MP44 to compare to the Thompson.

You need to get your facts straight. The MP-44 was only designated as MachinePistole in an attempt to hide it's development from Adolf Hitler, who halted all future rifle production. Hitler's Generals were seeing reports of troops engaging in combat that made the K98 ineffective because the rifle is meant for long-range killing, and too far away for the MP-40. His generals seeing this, decided to design a rifle with a shortened cartridge to meet both ends of the spectrum; thus the Sturmgewehr-44 was born. To sum things up; the Stg-44 was designed to meet the needs of the German Army, NOT TO COMBAT THE M1A1 THOMPSON.




Sovetskeey

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#12 15 years ago

The only thing they've changed on the weapons since 1.1 was the sight on the Kar98K. Everything else is the same.




Pictureman

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#13 15 years ago
WiseBobo To sum things up; the Stg-44 was designed to meet the needs of the German Army, NOT TO COMBAT THE M1A1 THOMPSON.

Yes, designed to meet the needs of the German army... because the MP40 was slow and impossible to hold on target compared to the Thompson. If you are having it out with Americans firing Thompsons at you at almost twice the rate of fire as the MP40 and with better accuracy, you sure as heck need to develop a new weapon! lol I think it's a matter of semantics. You say "to meet the needs" and I say the need was "to compare to the Thompson".




WiseBobo

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#14 15 years ago
'[WOW}IRONMAN'Yes, designed to meet the needs of the German army... because the MP40 was slow and impossible to hold on target compared to the Thompson. If you are having it out with Americans firing Thompsons at you at almost twice the rate of fire as the MP40 and with better accuracy, you sure as heck need to develop a new weapon! lol I think it's a matter of semantics. You say "to meet the needs" and I say the need was "to compare to the Thompson".

How stupid are you? THE THOMPSON HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EQUATION. THE NEED FOR A RIFLE THAT IS EFFECTIVE AT RANGES FROM 100-300m WAS. JESUS CHRIST. READ. LEARN.




Pictureman

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#15 15 years ago

The Americans had the Carbine. The Germans had none. The Americans had the Thompsonm the Germans had the lowly MP40. Keeping up with the Jone's is critical in war, ya know. You can't win if you are out gunned.

I can yell and get nasty like a school girl to, see?

HOLY FREAKING SONOFA BEEECH! WAKE THE FRICK UP ALREADY! GOOD GOLLY GEEPERS!

And put down the wine bottle by the way. Your mind is clouded boy.

hehe




nij28

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#16 15 years ago

HAHAHA, you two are like an old married couple!!! :nodding: :spank:




Sovetskeey

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#17 15 years ago

Couldn't agree with you more, Skitzo :D .




Crawling Chaos

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#18 15 years ago

I would think the mp44 was developed from experiences made on the eastern front. It wasnt really developed to "counteract" any enemy weapon but more to get the upper edge against all enemy (which after all hadnt anything comparable to an assaultrifle). -------------------------------- Fire your bullets in CyberSpace. No respect for gun users in rl.




WiseBobo

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#19 15 years ago
'[WOW}IRONMAN'The Americans had the Carbine. The Germans had none. The Americans had the Thompsonm the Germans had the lowly MP40. Keeping up with the Jone's is critical in war, ya know. You can't win if you are out gunned. I can yell and get nasty like a school girl to, see? HOLY FREAKING SONOFA BEEECH! WAKE THE FRICK UP ALREADY! GOOD GOLLY GEEPERS! And put down the wine bottle by the way. Your mind is clouded boy. hehe

The M1 Carbine was not a frontline weapon, and there was absolutely no need for the Germans to counter such a relatively unimportant piece of crap. They already had a K43 to originally counter the SVT-40, and then the M1 Garand. The Mp40 could actively compete with the M1a1, the Thompson was simply better at killing people, however, the German war doctrine relied upon the MG-42, with their rifles supporting it, and the American war doctrine of supporting the M1 Garand with the .30 cal. Obviously the Germans needed to outclass the enemy at ranges where they were engaging them at; too close for a K98, and too far away for the MP-40, AND I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND YOU THAT THE THOMPSON AND MP40 SHARE THE SAME M.E.R. And as Crawling Chaos stated, it simply was an improvement upon weapon design to suit the needs of the Wehrmacht and other units, not to compete with the Thompson or any other weapon for that matter.




Pictureman

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#20 15 years ago

I really don't mind educating you Bobo. But take a lesson from this. Know what you are talking about before you engage in an argument with people who have been around a lot longer than you. I realize this is likely because you are so young. Playing computer games does not teach you about WWII. Virtually everything you said in your post is bunk.

WiseBoboThe M1 Carbine was not a frontline weapon,[/QUOTE]

The M1 Carbine was used extensively on in the front lines, especially in building-to-building combat where it's greater accuracy than an SMG made it effective. You do not know what you are talking about. I am providing for your education 5 of the thousands of photographs showing the M1 Carbine in use on the front lines, even at Omaha Beach. You can click the thumbnails for the full-sized pphotograph.

M1 Carbines on the front lines in Iwo Jima:

M1 Carbine on the front lines

M1 Carbine in use on the front lines in Germany:

M1 Carbine on the front lines

A squad of soldiers in an amphibious vehicle carrying M1'a as they are about to hit Omaha Beach on D-Day:

M1 Carbine on the front lines

Soldier escorting Gen. McArthur on beach on D-Day with an M1 on his back:

M1 Carbine on the front lines

Soldier at Cherbourg escorting German POW's with an M1 Carbine:

M1 Carbine on the front lines

You see Bobo, the M1 Carbine was a very effective medium range wepon, not the "unimportant piece of crap" that you state it was out of ignorance. It was widely used on the front lines because it had better range and accuracy than an SMG. In fact, the M1 Carbine and Thompson were used in Korea as well, because they were excellent weapons.

WiseBoboand there was absolutely no need for the Germans to counter such a relatively unimportant piece of crap.[/QUOTE]

So unimportant that thousands of men carried them into battle on the front lines, such as Omaha Beach on D-Day? Bobo, the M1 Carbine was a fine weapon, and was very effective at medium range. Once more, the Germans had no light rifles to compare to it. A duel between an M1 Carbine and an MP40 at 100-200 yards would be a sick example of mistreatemnt for the MP40 user, since 1 well-placed round from the carbine would take part of his face off. IT WAS A RIFLE, and as such had accuracy an SMG could only dream of. Perhaps this is why it was used on the front lines as much as it was.

WiseBobo The Mp40 could actively compete with the M1a1, the Thompson was simply better at killing people,[/QUOTE]

No, the MP40, as I have explained, was no match for the Thompson. This is part of the reason the Germans rushed to develop the MP44

Yes, it was definately better at killing people. You are now contradicting yourself for the sake of arguing.

Few soldiers carried a K43. Most of the German army used either an MP40 or a bolt action rifle. German's ideas about weponry were wack, and is part of the reason they were overtaken in almost every instance where heavy German tanks and artillery were absent. Facing hails of lead from Thompsons and accurate shots from M1 Carbines with the putput MP40 and slow firing bolt action rifles put them at a disadvantage. Only the MG43 could pick up such slack, and a well placed round from an M1 Carbine or Garande put an end to an MG43 gunner.

WiseBobo however, the German war doctrine relied upon the MG-42, with their rifles supporting it,

Exactly. This is why the M1 Carbine and Thompson were so effective. Precicely.

[QUOTE=WiseBobo]and the American war doctrine of supporting the M1 Garand with the .30 cal.

No. The US used whatever weapons were effective.

[QUOTE=WiseBobo]Obviously the Germans needed to outclass the enemy at ranges where they were engaging them at; too close for a K98, and too far away for the MP-40,

The Germans beeded something alright. Thus the rush to develop the MP44 to compete with the faster and more reliable Thompson and the accuracy and speed of the M1 Carbine. They were outgunned. [QUOTE=WiseBobo] And as Crawling Chaos stated, it simply was an improvement upon weapon design to suit the needs of the Wehrmacht and other units, not to compete with the Thompson or any other weapon for that matter.

Incorecto. The MP40 was unable to compete with the Thompson and the M1 Carbine. Hence the rush to develop the MP44.

I hope that you have learned form this Bobo. You should have learned that the MP40 was slow and unreliable and constantly burned it's user's hands. That it could not compete with the faster, more accurate, and more reliable Thompson. Aslo you should have learned that the M1 Carbine was used extensively at the front lines because it was a fine weapon with medium range and good accuract up to 200 yards.

This concludes your education. Go with God young man. Be well.