And since I'm talking about details - -1 reply

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Fredf

Think before you shoot!

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24th September 2006

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#1 12 years ago

I have some problems with some other aspects of the COH when it comes to the fine details of the game. And just so there's no question about me knowing what the heck I'm talking about, I'll just say that I'm a retired US Army officer with over 20 years of service. Granted it wasn't served in 1943, but the terminology hasn't changed much over the years even though the TO&E's for the Infantry Division has. If anybody wants a like to an link to an authentic TO&E for a 1943 Infantry Division, I'll be happy to provide one. First, in 1943, there was no such thing as a "Riflemen squad". There was, however, an "Infantry squad", also known as a "Rifle squad" that consisted of 12 men. There were 10 men carrying M-1 Garand rifles, 1 carrying a BAR, and 1 sniper carrying a 1903 Springfield rifle. Three such "Rifle squads" made up an "Infantry platoon". Our heroes' squads only seem to have 6 members. We seem to be at a distinct disadvantage here, don't you think?




HLBMXR

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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19th April 2006

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#2 12 years ago
tinhead50

I don't spend enough time here

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5th August 2006

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#3 12 years ago

just a little fact you should know CoH is a game you play on a computer that has the best graphics and the best squad intelligence around! it is based on WW2 but is a video game and their for isn't COMPLETLY accurate.




Fredf

Think before you shoot!

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24th September 2006

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#4 12 years ago

The dude says he's fixing that and that's good enough for me. I agree that it's the absolute best game ever. You'll get no argument from me on that point. I've waited for this game like a baby waits for a bottle. I'm transfixed by the realism of the game. I feel immersed when I'm playing, but I'm a detail freak too. And little things bug the crap out of me. Besides being a former Army officer, I was also a tech writer for a Redmond software company who will remain unnamed so I do have a penchant for detail and accuracy.




tharulerme

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20th March 2006

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#5 12 years ago

Actually in World War 2, from like 1944, there was no such thing anymore as just a Rifleman, or Infantry squad which you are talking about (there still were infantry squad's, but NOT the way you mean). I don't remember out of how many man a squad would consist back then, it could be like 12, but what I do know is that each squad had 2 men with the bar, and at least one man (mostly the squad leader) with a thompson. The other 9 (or more or less, I dunno, I just say like 12 guys so 9 are left here) were equipped with rifles, not ALWAYS a sniper as well. Also Garand's weren't the only rifles, they were equipped with carbine's and springfield's ( <- unscoped) as well. Those rifles were all used around as much as eachother, except the Garand that one was the most common back there. I want to remind you, Company of Heroes IS based from 1944, which means that those "Rifle squads" that you refer to actually were past. The new squads contained at least one sub machine gunner and two support men (with BAR's) and the other were rifles, sometimes one of them had a sniper rifle. One more thing, in the late part (actually very late) of the war the Springfield wasn't the only sniper used in ww2 anymore by the American's but also the Scoped M1 Garand. - Tharulerme




tharulerme

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20th March 2006

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#6 12 years ago

But of course, it all doesn't matter.

If Relic made squads THAT way, then it would be way to chaotic and not so good for the gameplay.

Apart some minor changes and add's it's fine as how it is.

(For example, American's could do with a Stuart tank, and there should be infantry possible to make with thompson's. Also an upgrade for the Ostwind Flakpanzer to the Werbelwind Flakpanzer would be a good idea.)




Fredf

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24th September 2006

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#7 12 years ago

Ok, you may have a valid point. I don't know about post-1944 TO&E Infantry squad configurations. Traditionally, a platoon leader (2LT) carried a M1 Carbine. Thompson's may have been part of the squad TOE but I have seen no evidence of that. Until the US Army reconfigured the Army divisions using the ROAD concept, I'm pretty sure things stayed pretty much the same. And just because the TO&E prescribed a particular way of doing things didn't mean it was always done that way. Individual commanders could use their resources pretty much any way they saw fit within certain boundaries. I'm just pointing out the way is was supposed to be by the book. However, my primary complaint wasn't so much about the number, it was about the nomenclature being used. There was no such thing as a "Rifleman" squad. No where in US Army lore is the Infantry squad AKD "Rifle squad" referred to as a "Rifleman squad". That's my complain there. The numbers were kind of a secondary beef.




KillingHawk_GER

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19th April 2005

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#8 12 years ago
Actually in World War 2, from like 1944, there was no such thing anymore as just a Rifleman, or Infantry squad which you are talking about (there still were infantry squad's, but NOT the way you mean). I don't remember out of how many man a squad would consist back then, it could be like 12, but what I do know is that each squad had 2 men with the bar, and at least one man (mostly the squad leader) with a thompson. The other 9 (or more or less, I dunno, I just say like 12 guys so 9 are left here) were equipped with rifles, not ALWAYS a sniper as well.

Yes, thats the correct armament of an Ranger Squad, but not all US-Soldiers were Rangers... On D-Day 70-75% of the normal Soldiers were equipped with the M1 Garand and only rangers, paratroopers, etc. got masses of thompsons and BAR-Rifles because these guys had the "fucking" jobs to do like breaking through omaha / utah ...... and jumping in Arnheim, Nimwegen, etc.

MFG

KillingHawk

P.s.:its the same about the german grendiers.... they really din't messed up in squads of 4 soldiers... thats gamebalancing :rolleyes:

3-4 men was the crew of one single MG-42...




HLBMXR

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19th April 2006

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#9 12 years ago
KillingHawk_GER 3-4 men was the crew of one single MG-42...

2 Crewed the weapon, one gunner and assistant gunner (had 4 50-round drums and a 300-round box) and one carried additional ammo for the gun (2 300-round boxes). But after d-day the ammo bearer was removed from the squad so only 2 men served the mg34/42, and the ammo for it was spilt amoung the riflemen.

On paper the Rifle Squad was 7 Riflemen with Garands, Squad and Assistant Leader carried M1s as well, the Automatic Rifleman had a BAR and the Assistant Auto Rifleman had a M1, and the Ammo bearer had a M1.

On paper M1s were standard issue. But the NCOs usually had a SMG or carbine for the close range fights. There is no real standard for the TOE for the rifle squad. But Garands were definaltly the main weapon.

Personally i dont like the BAR. Which is why my mod is going towards the Airborne. Their loadout was very good. They refused to use the BAR because they needed more firepower and felt it lacked it.

  • 1 Squad Leader(SSgt)-------M1 Garand Rifle, or Thompson SMG
  • 1 Assistant Leader(Sgt)------M1 Garand Rifle, Carbine, or SMG
  • 7 Riflemen ------------------M1 Garand Rifles and (2 max) Carbines
  • 1 Machine Gunner-----------M1919A4/6, and a Carbine
  • 1 Assistant Gunner----------M1 Carbine
  • 1 Ammo bearer---------M1 Garand Rifle

That is the closest thing to a standard Airborne Rifle squad. Again they varied, but with the weapons show in that table. Platoon HQ had the 1st and 2nd Lieutenants carrying Carbines or SMGs, and the Platoon Sergeant and Guide had Rifles and Carbines. I read about the loadout of a squad for a certain mission, they had all SMGs and carbines with 2 Garands. So the loadout could be taylored for any mission. What i read was for a very close urban mission.




Fredf

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24th September 2006

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#10 12 years ago

For anybody who cares at this point, here is the EXACT composition of a STANDARD Rifle squad as described in the Basic Training Workbook, Feb 1945 from the US War Department. rifle_squad.gif




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