crysis on console, possible? -1 reply

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Sgt. D. Pilla

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#51 11 years ago

Flodgy;4235409If you're referring to the Ubi video, that can kind of count.. but isn't exactly a decent enough source per say. :uhm:

Yea, but you're being incredibly ignorant. Sins is an RTS title. The engine is put to a completely different use to that of an FPS game. That's like saying Supreme Commander is superior to every other game because you can zoom out and see little 2D things. Find me proof that the Ironclad Engine can support the level of detail from an FPS world on the scale of an RTS and then you'll have proof.

Yes I did, but you warped it and left things out. While Ironclad is adding DirectX 10 support to the game, it is far from full support, but is merely shaders. Far from what you outlined originally.

The Infinity Engine? Oh dear god you can't be serious. That's the engine that was first used to power Baldur's Gate. That was a 60km open map in the video you saw sure, but it was set against a skybox and had to simple models with bland textures on them. It was on hardware that was considered ultra modern for its use. That is why it ran smooth.

I can't find anything on this engine whatsoever.

Then it is therefore third party, and completely unreliable. Players said it in IRC chat... yea.. right. That is possibly one of the most in-accurate pieces of proof you could get. It simply isn't reliable. Once again, refer to the size of worlds in comparison with their level of detail and context.

...

The World of Warcraft engine uses elements of Warcraft III's engine. That's 6 years ago that game was released. WoW's engine is bland, features simple textures, simple models, and simple animations. That is why the game is so popular in a way, it uses a simple engine that can be accessed by a massive variety of low end hardware. To say it matches that of the Dunia engine is absolutely moronic. You take its purpose out of context completely and focus purely on size.

It isn't the size that matters, but how you use it. Heard that before? Yea.

I still don't understand where your focus on size came from. The Dunia engine can support a large persistent environment with graphics on par if not better than a good variety of games available today, has a unique weather system that affects the world and way you play, and some awesome physics usage. Can WoW's engine do this? No. Can the Infinity Engine do this? No.

So, anything else to support your claims?

It doesn't matter how detailed to world is, we are talking size here, of how Dunia is nothing special with persistant size, so the Infinity Engine still wins, so does Weesals Engine, btw, you won't find much on that at all, its a home brewed engine used in Barnadia (Under Construction, PM me for the source) Infinity Engine can do weather :P and Physics, maybe not "Awesome" physics, but going by Ubisofts and Crytek's past history of physics it's not that awesome...(Graw2 had fairly bad Physics at best, so does Crysis, Graw1 was good though) On Par? I think you do mean better, atleast, so the Dev's and most people seem to think, IMO the Graphics we have seen with Dunia in FarCry 2, is far from impressive (Not comparing to Crysis)

Seriously though, If you want to take a look at Weesals Engine in action, PM me, It's not offically released yet, So keeping the link hidden is my, and Weesals (FileFront Forums Member) top priority




Flodgy

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#52 11 years ago

Sgt. D. Pilla;4235595It doesn't matter how detailed to world is, we are talking size here, of how Dunia is nothing special with persistant size, so the Infinity Engine still wins, so does Weesals Engine, btw, you won't find much on that at all, its a home brewed engine used in Barnadia (Under Construction, PM me for the source) Infinity Engine can do weather :P and Physics, maybe not "Awesome" physics, but going by Ubisofts and Crytek's past history of physics it's not that awesome...(Graw2 had fairly bad Physics at best, so does Crysis, Graw1 was good though) On Par? I think you do mean better, atleast, so the Dev's and most people seem to think, IMO the Graphics we have seen with Dunia in FarCry 2, is far from impressive (Not comparing to Crysis)

Seriously though, If you want to take a look at Weesals Engine in action, PM me, It's not offically released yet, So keeping the link hidden is my, and Weesals (FileFront Forums Member) top priority

My aim was never to discuss size as the important factor in an Engine. I was always talking about quality. As said earlier, the bigger something can be doesn't necessarily mean better.

On the Weasels engine - I honestly couldn't give a crap about it. You make it out as if it is a secret weapon up your sleeve that degrades everything else.

I'm sorry to tell you, but the Infinity Engine, cannot do weather. And whatever you heard is absolute crap. The Engine cannot handle a weather system because it uses pre-rendered tiled textures. You could have gotten this impression by such moving 2D tiles... but that is hardly weather by modern standards. Give me a source.. and I'll believe. Same with regarding physics.

Continuing physics... At least these engines take advantage of multi-core CPUs and put them to work, physics allow the player to interact with the world in a different way. A bad example of physics? Oblivion. A good example of physics? Crysis. The physics in Crysis completely change the gameplay, just because the whole world can be affected by it. You've barely seen any of the game's physics in work to make a decent judgment, and the way you seem to react against it gives me the impression you don't like the game. But you need to be following it to gain an informed opinion.

Give me a constructive reason why Dunia's graphics are far from impressive.

You present an image of the game world to people and I'm willing a majority of them are willing to argue against your opinion.




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#53 11 years ago
On the Weasels engine - I honestly couldn't give a crap about it. You make it out as if it is a secret weapon up your sleeve that degrades everything else.

How so? Its an engine, for a game that is unreleased, and Weesals has asked me to not show the game to anyone unless nessarcery, until release day, Im am obliging by that.

A good example of physics? Crysis

I wouldn't say that, it has A LOT of physics bugs, that games like GRAW 1 and even 2 don't have I love Crysis as a game, but its Physics at best, are buggy, and not upto scratch of what they should/could be.

Dunia's graphics arn't impressive to me, because everything looks so faked, I don't care if they are going for rustic, in a screenshot I saw, the buildings were clay looking, to the extent of a clay TV show (All shiny like) dirt, does not reflect light, atleast not enough to see reflections in it. The 'effects' it has such as moving grass, is pathetic, it all moves in a single direction, which isn't "wind" effects like they claim it to be The only decent thing in it is its textures, and its bloom/HDR. No offence, but I reckon I've followed Crysis for longer then you, and probibly into more detail (Such as, 3 years ago when it was announced), unless you were in the Betas, in which you beat me XD Btw, the Weesals engine physics, are better then Crysis, because it doesn't have any physics to bug out (Such as bouncing tree's, and people, and flying people!) Also, Crysis has rather poor support for dual core, since you follow it, you should very well know that (My dual core laptop runs at 60% full physics...thats not good support, using only 1 core)

The most well made game, with good Physics, good graphics, would be GRAW 1, GRAW 2 was good, but the Physics in that seemed somewhat worse then GRAW 1 did




Flodgy

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#54 11 years ago
How so? Its an engine, for a game that is unreleased, and Weesals has asked me to not show the game to anyone unless nessarcery, until release day, Im am obliging by that.

What professional backing does he have for this engine? What kind of technology is behind it? What hardware is needed to run? What platform / genre is it intended for? Why is it being developed?

I wouldn't say that, it has A LOT of physics bugs, that games like GRAW 1 and even 2 don't have I love Crysis as a game, but its Physics at best, are buggy, and not upto scratch of what they should/could be.

Oh I'll agree that it has its bugs, but many other games to as well. My point is that to this time today, no games make such a complex and wide use of physics other than Crysis. That is an achievement in itself. Bugs can be fixed with a little time and effort.

Dunia's graphics arn't impressive to me, because everything looks so faked, I don't care if they are going for rustic, in a screenshot I saw, the buildings were clay looking, to the extent of a clay TV show (All shiny like) dirt, does not reflect light, atleast not enough to see reflections in it. The 'effects' it has such as moving grass, is pathetic, it all moves in a single direction, which isn't "wind" effects like they claim it to be The only decent thing in it is its textures, and its bloom/HDR.

Wait, did you just contradict yourself? You label building textures 'clay like', and complain about light reflections and so on, yet proceed to compliment the textures and Lighting system? Righto.

How the hell can you judge on the wind and grass movement? This is something I am finding bloody hard to grasp here. You haven't played the game, I haven't played the game, so you haven't seen this effect in primary actions, giving you no real basis to judge it on other than demonstration videos that are clearly predetermined.

Also on the comment about them being 'fake'. Since when did a game have to be realistic in a sense? As stated countless times, it is the intention to give the world a gritty and primal feel (which you've somewhat mentioned), as to create the atmosphere and so on.

No offence, but I reckon I've followed Crysis for longer then you, and probibly into more detail (Such as, 3 years ago when it was announced), unless you were in the Betas, in which you beat me XD Btw, the Weesals engine physics, are better then Crysis, because it doesn't have any physics to bug out (Such as bouncing tree's, and people, and flying people!) Also, Crysis has rather poor support for dual core, since you follow it, you should very well know that (My dual core laptop runs at 60% full physics...thats not good support, using only 1 core) The most well made game, with good Physics, good graphics, would be GRAW 1, GRAW 2 was good, but the Physics in that seemed somewhat worse then GRAW 1 did

So... because you figure that you've followed a game longer than me, that gives you a more intricate understanding of how systems work and the market itself? As far as I know you have some understanding of coding, but are 19 years old. No where near old enough to have a decent formal qualification in design, art or programming from University. No, I didn't participate in the beta, but that was simply because I don't own the hardware for it.

You can't guarantee that Weesals engine is better, because it is something coming only from you, and in this case, you're biased. And since there are no publications or sources on this subject other than you, it can't be accounted for.

Regarding dual core support, just tweak it. There are numerous guides about for it. And it isn't so much poor support, but the fact it is such an intensive CPU game. And that is a laptop. No where near the equivalent of a gaming PC.

Once again, you're opinion. GRAW 1 had good physics yes, but in the style and context of gameplay, they weren't as important as other titles.




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#55 11 years ago
What professional backing does he have for this engine? What kind of technology is behind it? What hardware is needed to run? What platform / genre is it intended for? Why is it being developed?

* Technology? By that im assuming you mean how its programmed etc, in C++, with Bump Map, Paralax Map, Bloom, HDR, AA to come (Did have it, but had to remove it due to technical issues), Open worlds atleats twice the size of Dunia, Volumetric Clouds, Dynamism, Dynamicaly Rendered Grass (No modeled grass), Animation, AI System, Lighting, Shadows, Shader 2.0 (Maybe 3.0 later on), Multithreading (Dual CPU), Dynamic Day and Night (Tied to the GMT +9.30 Time Zone), Stream Load (Load on demand, just like Crysis and UT3 etc)

* Hardware is any, it is an extreamly scalable engine, its recommended to have a 6600 GeForce to get maximum graphics at a very nice frame rate (60+) (Issues remain with compatability with the D3D format), a sole core processor of 1.7GHZ handles everything very nicely

* Platform is obviously PC, for MMORPG's (Oblivion Style), however, parts of Weesals Engine (That is actualy the name, aswell as the members name "Weesals") is used in RTS's style games such as Knave - The born hero

* Being developed as an MMORPG similar to Oblivion but online rather then single player, with 'magic' powers, sword armys, you can build up your own castle in your own part of the map, and set out with a clan of friends (or lone wolf) and conquore other empires

Wait, did you just contradict yourself? You label building textures 'clay like', and complain about light reflections and so on, yet proceed to compliment the textures and Lighting system? Righto.

Should have claiffied, I mean textures such as the plant textures and weapon textures, nice and high in quality

How the hell can you judge on the wind and grass movement?

The fact the video is all cocky about their wind Dynamism, yet all the grass which is being affected by the wind, moves in the same direction

You can't guarantee that Weesals engine is better, because it is something coming only from you, and in this case, you're biased. And since there are no publications or sources on this subject other than you, it can't be accounted for.

Actually there is, you just have to know where to look, but information IS scetchy still, I'll get Weesals to update his website tonight with the correct information

So... because you figure that you've followed a game longer than me, that gives you a more intricate understanding of how systems work and the market itself? As far as I know you have some understanding of coding, but are 19 years old. No where near old enough to have a decent formal qualification in design, art or programming from University.

Your making assumptions again...Did I EVER say that I think I know more then you in market? No, I didn't, I'm saying that I would like to think my information is more accurate then yours because I've followed the game for longer, read every article, every review on its engine documentation etc. I've been to TAFE, done programming courses, and I know a fair bit of programming I have picked up myself (VB6 is all) I know a little C++ as I'm helping Weesals make his engine, I'm the Graphics Designer for the engine, I'm the modeler, and I program in HTML, Javascript, tiny bit of PHP, CSS. Which covers everything you doubt'ed that I have learnt...Art, Programming, and design. btw, I do have a formal Qualification in programming ;) You shouldn't make assumptions based on nothing

Regarding dual core support, just tweak it. There are numerous guides about for it. And it isn't so much poor support, but the fact it is such an intensive CPU game. And that is a laptop. No where near the equivalent of a gaming PC.

Incorrect, My sole core CPU desktop, runs Physics maxed out, graphics on high (Other then OQ and Shaders) and I get 30+FPS.... It's not as CPU intensive as first thought It's closer to poor support, then it is intensive Btw, here is that image I was refering to, the buildings look stupid, and ugly, and the Bloom/HDR is way to much, HDR is not that 'foggy'

Spoiler: Show
fc2_large_2.jpg



Flodgy

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#56 11 years ago
* Technology? By that im assuming you mean how its programmed etc, in C++, with Bump Map, Paralax Map, Bloom, HDR, AA to come (Did have it, but had to remove it due to technical issues), Open worlds atleats twice the size of Dunia, Volumetric Clouds, Dynamism, Dynamicaly Rendered Grass (No modeled grass) * Hardware is any, it is an extreamly scalable engine, its recommended to have a 6600 GeForce to get maximum graphics at a very nice frame rate (60+) (Issues remain with compatability with the D3D format), a sole core processor of 1.7GHZ handles everything very nicely * Platform is obviously PC, for MMORPG's (Oblivion Style), however, parts of Weesals Engine (That is actualy the name, aswell as the members name "Weesals") is used in RTS's style games such as Knave - The born hero * Being developed as an MMORPG similar to Oblivion but online rather then single player, with 'magic' powers, sword armys, you can build up your own castle in your own part of the map, and set out with a clan of friends (or lone wolf) and conquore other empires

Oh. Really? Right. Ok then.

So, something like this is an incredible piece of technology, something that many developers have not yet harnessed to place in their own engines. I mean, really, parallax mapping is something still seen so dam rarely in a game today in high extent because it is so dam graphics hungry. Yet it will run at maximum with a 6600 Geforce? I'm sorry. But I find this very hard to believe.

The fact the video is all cocky about their wind Dynamism, yet all the grass which is being affected by the wind, moves in the same direction

Oh I see, since the guys are proud and confident about their creation, and when grass all moves with the wind, it's considered bad?

Yea. It wouldn't be weird for grass to go against the wind.

Your making assumptions again...Did I EVER say that I think I know more then you in market? No, I didn't, I'm saying that I would like to think my information is more accurate then yours because I've followed the game for longer, read every article, every review on its engine documentation etc. I've been to TAFE, done programming courses, and I know a fair bit of programming I have picked up myself (VB6 is all) I know a little C++ as I'm helping Weesals make his engine, I'm the Graphics Designer for the engine, I'm the modeler, and I program in HTML, Javascript, tiny bit of PHP, CSS. Which covers everything you doubt'ed that I have learnt...Art, Programming, and design. btw, I do have a formal Qualification in programming winkx.gif You shouldn't make assumptions based on nothing

Words carry a weight. You know that, what I assumed was merely what I figured you had implied.

Nice sarcasm, read every article, every review and piece of documentation eh? That makes you appear quite one sided and intent on supporting a single product. I do my research before I post, and if it is proved false I ask for a source to do so. Stating what you did is near pointless and grabbing at straws.

Well, I'm glad you have qualifications. Not often these days people bother to educate themselves. So, considering you model, texture and code, I'm wondering, who UV maps? Who handles audio? You're advertising of Weesal and yours engine is not relevant to this discussion, and is viewed no more as something put in place to contribute to your ego or elevate your discussion. If you accomplished everything you claim you did, that's brilliant, I'm happy for you as it is great, but it carries no worth here.

Where were my assumptions based on nothing? Did it seem important that I asked or not?




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#57 11 years ago
So, something like this is an incredible piece of technology, something that many developers have not yet harnessed to place in their own engines. I mean, really, parallax mapping is something still seen so dam rarely in a game today in high extent because it is so dam graphics hungry. Yet it will run at maximum with a 6600 Geforce? I'm sorry. But I find this very hard to believe.

No problem, but Weesals will back up my claim, (I can't remember if its in the link I sent you) The 6600 Was tested a while ago, and it ran fine (not paralax mapping as its only new to the engine, as is bump mapping), So i can't speak for those 2 new technologys. The Grass we have, dev's have been able to do for a long time, the problem with it is a few things...It looks faked (Its basically layerd based of pixels) and it uses A LOT of GPU Bandwidth (My 6600 Was maxed out with that grass turned on, Causing GPU lag!) But it did still run, and still run fast.

Oh I see, since the guys are proud and confident about their creation, and when grass all moves with the wind, it's considered bad?

Yea. It wouldn't be weird for grass to go against the wind.

There is a difference between Cocky, and Confident, and also between stating one thing, yet the complete opposite happening, watch the vid (on Ubi's website) and you'll see what I mean, the Grass would sway one way, then when the wind changed direction, all of a sudden the grass all swayed the other way, rather then in a more X typed pattern, some one way, then some the other way as the wind changes direction

Nice sarcasm, read every article, every review and piece of documentation eh? That makes you appear quite one sided and intent on supporting a single product. I do my research before I post, and if it is proved false I ask for a source to do so. Stating what you did is near pointless and grabbing at straws.

Wasn't sarcasim, more exageration, But I have read many many articles/reviews, I'm not single sided on support Crysis, its rather buggy for my liking, but still an awesome game, I'm all for Dunia and FarCry2, only what it boasts is nothing great, and nothing fancy.

So, considering you model, texture and code, I'm wondering, who UV maps? Who handles audio? You're advertising of Weesal and yours engine is not relevant to this discussion, and is viewed no more as something put in place to contribute to your ego or elevate your discussion.

I code in VB6 well, Im still learning C++ like I said, so at the moment, Weesals does the C++ coding for the engine. No body does Audio as of yet, we are a 2 man team, give us a break :P lol The reason why weesals engine came into this, is to show that Dunias features, and map sizes, are nothing special, and the fact that everybody goes on about them as though it is is surprising and mis guided, The map size like the brag is nothing special, games have done bigger with Dynamism environments for years, its "Wind" is pathetic, and as good as games have done for years, but not better. That is how its relevent, to show that these new engines coming out, bragging about things, that arn't even special, has been done before, and by somewhat amature programmer/team




Flodgy

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#58 11 years ago
No problem, but Weesals will back up my claim, (I can't remember if its in the link I sent you) The 6600 Was tested a while ago, and it ran fine (not paralax mapping as its only new to the engine, as is bump mapping), So i can't speak for those 2 new technologys. The Grass we have, dev's have been able to do for a long time, the problem with it is a few things...It looks faked (Its basically layerd based of pixels) and it uses A LOT of GPU Bandwidth (My 6600 Was maxed out with that grass turned on, Causing GPU lag!) But it did still run, and still run fast.

Ah, well that is a tad different then. Bump mapping and Parallax are newer creations (mainly parallax), and that would explain why it ran fine on the 6600. Yea, the GPU lag would come from the intense amount of models loading, and I'd assume they would clip over in places causing meshes to connect and so on.

There is a difference between Cocky, and Confident, and also between stating one thing, yet the complete opposite happening, watch the vid (on Ubi's website) and you'll see what I mean, the Grass would sway one way, then when the wind changed direction, all of a sudden the grass all swayed the other way, rather then in a more X typed pattern, some one way, then some the other way as the wind changes direction

I was always under the belief that cockiness came from confidence. Either that or stupidity, and these devs haven't proved themselves that... yet. I've seen the video mate, several times. Remember it is only your interpretation of what you saw, that doesn't mean the product is complete, incomplete, or so on. Like I said, we'll be able to judge when the game is released or more comprehensive videos are.

Wasn't sarcasim, more exageration, But I have read many many articles/reviews, I'm not single sided on support Crysis, its rather buggy for my liking, but still an awesome game, I'm all for Dunia and FarCry2, only what it boasts is nothing great, and nothing fancy.

Well sarcasm and exaggeration all fit into the category of satire. So they both fit. Well, while it's features along are nothing brilliant, put together and intertwined is what makes it special. Many games are still coming out of the era where if you drove a truck into a tree it would be like smashing into a massive block of concrete, Dunia and CryEngine2 are some of the very few engines attempting to break that tradition. I believe it is fancy and great because it is attempting to improve and break the current moulds of what we have, sure it may be nothing but eye-candy if they can't back it up, but it's like that with most games. GTA IV being a prime possibility.

I code in VB6 well, Im still learning C++ like I said, so at the moment, Weesals does the C++ coding for the engine. No body does Audio as of yet, we are a 2 man team, give us a break :P lol The reason why weesals engine came into this, is to show that Dunias features, and map sizes, are nothing special, and the fact that everybody goes on about them as though it is is surprising and mis guided, The map size like the brag is nothing special, games have done bigger with Dynamism environments for years, its "Wind" is pathetic, and as good as games have done for years, but not better.

That is how its relevent, to show that these new engines coming out, bragging about things, that arn't even special, has been done before, and by somewhat amature programmer/team

That's a good point, however, how does your system run with large texture files (4096x4096 and above) alongside every single other one of its features? It is fine to have a shitload of integration and abilities, but it all becomes pointless if it doesn't work to its maximum potential and so on. While the map size isn't really anything special, no, how many worlds have its detail? This is a point I've made several times before. You'll have complex scripts running, constant movement on screen with better-than-average graphics and so on.

You can continue critiscising it based off your own creations, but until we get a better look at its release later on, you have no right to make harsh judgments, as does anybody else.




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#59 11 years ago
Ah, well that is a tad different then. Bump mapping and Parallax are newer creations (mainly parallax), and that would explain why it ran fine on the 6600. Yea, the GPU lag would come from the intense amount of models loading, and I'd assume they would clip over in places causing meshes to connect and so on.

No, not with the particular grass I'm talking about, Barnadia has a few types of grass, model grass, which runs fine, and Layered grass (If I find an old version, I'll screenshot) the layered grass is not a model at all, rather just pixels apon pixels giving the impression of grass, its a much faster way to render the grass, and produces much higher frame rates, its problem is, that it maxed out a 6600 Fill Rate, and does so even on my 8800GT (only A LOT less noticable), while we will still support this grass (At the moment it looks like we will) it will be an Ultra graphics feature as it is just to taxing on the Fill Rate of GPU's

Like I said, we'll be able to judge when the game is released or more comprehensive videos are.

Agreed, but for me, so far the first impression's arn't great

Going by my Crysis experimentation (Only tested upto 2048) My system supports 2048*2048 textures fine, 30+FPS on high graphics (Its what I use right now) If you are refering to the engine as the 'system' of Weesals engine, I'm not quite sure on what the actualy measurements are, but I believe it to be near DX9's maximum size (Which is somewhat small) this is because I remember when we were making textures, brad was saying its the biggest it goes because DX9 doesn't support higher, however, I'll get the facts when he's online. Current Res of the textures though is 512*512, seamless tiling.




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#60 11 years ago
Sgt. D. Pilla;4231418And sins has the biggest scale by far, granted, its an RTS, but it still supports larger worlds then Dubia or CryEngine.

Way back in '96 Daggerfall supported around 63,000+ square miles with an estimated 15,000 towns and 750,000+ NPCs. The real trick is density and quality of content within that area and frankly for all the great game Sins is it really doesn't manage the same level of content as any of the more recent shooters.