The Hellish Complex [THC] -1 reply

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lancelee

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4th March 2005

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#1 14 years ago

I'm from Doomarena, and I've been working on a map called The Hellish complex. It's an amazing map, and it's taken me over 120hours to finish it. There is a link below this on where you can download it. I emailed the file to the admin at the Doom 3 Files site, but it won't be up for awhile, so use the link below to get there. Go to doomarena and download the file under the "Phew, it's finally done" post.




Ultima2x

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27th June 2004

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#2 14 years ago

The map is up. I'm going in game to test it now :) I'm wondering if this is going to be the first Good-quality D3 MP map out ^_^. bbs with comments




Ultima2x

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#3 14 years ago

The map in itself i believe is very creative (altho i wonder about a hidden spot it seems you made... in the hallway where the stairs are... you see a gap... it's impossible to jump up there, but i can jump up and make out a room) Here is the problem. Clipping!!!!!! Clipping for the most part people assume as a visual issue.. not something people usually care too much in "beta" maps. But.. unknown to many.. it is a big big big big big killer of FPS. What happens, is an object intersects with another object thus scrambling the texture where they intersect.. now that's the visual part. But the FPS hurting part is this. When two objects are going into eachother, it creates even more stuff for your machine to render (even if you can't see it). The best thing to do is "connect" the edges, not overlap them. 1 or 2 clipping issues are no big deal... but i found quite a few.. not just quite a few... quite a few on important objects (such as stairs... where its actually clipping much more than i can see). Here are some screenshots of where i found these. I'm assuming you know what you are doing in mapping, so you know what to do to fix these. ( i decided to post links instead of actual screenshots to save bandwith ) I also lowered the image size by half in order to upload all of them. So it may be difficult to actually SEE some of the clippings, but i incircled them all and you can trust me that they are there. 1 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/43/4615.jpg 2 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/234/4616.jpg 3 :::Removed::: Uploaded same image twice 4 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/7999/4618.jpg 5 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/4346/4619.jpg 6 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/9562/4620.jpg 7 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/8933/4622.jpg 8 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/2460/4623.jpg 9 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/960/4626.jpg 10 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/5180/4627.jpg 11 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/549/4629.jpg 12 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/2849/4631.jpg 13 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/395/4632.jpg 14 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/7296/4634.jpg 15 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/9486/4635.jpg 16 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/1811/4636.jpg 17 http://img47.exs.cx/img47/4055/4637.jpg




Ultima2x

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#4 14 years ago

::can't edit:: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Sorry for the... triple post. But as time allocates I can't enter all the information at the same time. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: This is the best way i can explain clipping hurting your maps FPS. Take this box for example BadBox.gif As you can clearly see... this is a "bad" box. The corners are not squares, they are actually a product of both angles. Both sides are overlapping at the same place to make a square, when you don't need that many polygons. Here... this would be the way to do it. GoodBox.gif As you can see, you make a box as before... but without all the extra polies. And remember.. lower polies = higher fps :D In a situation, where you need to make just a square, and you don't need all the outer parts. (as in just a square, no extras..) this is the best way to do it. PerfectBox.gif As you can see here, you come up with a square in the middle... and u cut ur polies down even more! Notes: The best way to make a map is not to create a big box, and edit everything within it. The key is to go inside out, not outside in. Any unused or unacessable space should be "cut" from your map. Any sides that you can't see (like the outside of a map), shouldn't have textures on it. As you can't see it.. it's just a waste of space and FPS rendering. :) The best way to remove objects you don't need, is to use CGI Subtract (atleast i think thats what is called).. it's a button you find on your toolbar somewhere in the middle. Find that.. then make a selection around an object. And simply hit backspace, it will remove the object. (also slice edges that are perhaps too long)

Sorry again for the triple post!!! As for the map itself... it's really different from other multiplayer DMs out so far (which consist of a few barrels and a big open field), there's alot of geometry in here. And for some reason i like it. Just with some of these tweaks, and a fix of the clipping issues. The map would be much more playable. Negative: 2 negatives i really have with the map besides the clipping issues. 1. The "secret" room. if it's not a secret room at all then it's just a waste of space. But in the hallway where the stairs are, u can see a opening at the top. And when i jump up i can kinda see inside, and i see a new texture layered over on the side, which seems to be a hallway leading to a secret room. Now, From where it stands. There is no way of getting in that room (unless... there is a secret "door" somewhere... which then makes sense) But even then, the best gun.. the BFG, is accessable under a staircase. So i'm wondering what the secret room could contain (that is if it is infact a secret room) 2. The bfg... i think the bfg is just waaay too easy to get. I mean... it's sitting down under a staircase... Just sitting there. ANd in a map like this it feels like it could be easily spammed. As you could fire it off just about anywhere you see an enemy and they would have no chance of escape. Or.. you could just sit in a corner and spam a door entrance until more shells appear. All in all great map... lots of work went into it i can tell. Nice use of textures for the most part, and i love the little light details. (pssh i should be writting tutorials >_O)




lancelee

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4th March 2005

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#5 14 years ago

Thanks for the review, Ultima. I noticed these "clipping" problems earlier, and it's quite annoying to fix all of them, but I'll get to it. The reason I say this, is because that usually fixing those causes leaks, but I inevitably destroyed that possibility by creating a blank skybox to secure the data from leaking. I'll be moving around the weapons and such soon, as I do realize that it is a total throwdown, as far as how the layout is. Some rooms are inaccessable, but I'll take care of that in V2. Is there anything else that catches your attention? :D




Ultima2x

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27th June 2004

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#6 14 years ago

The skybox should be molded around the level, and not a "large box" around the map if that's what you are using. (which can also lower the maps fps) :) But besides that.. no.. not really. It has much potential. Perhaps another hallway from the wall where the turkeypuncher machines are, that leads into the other hallway on the side (i'm hoping you get what i'm saying) That way... your map would kinda work more of a "O" instead of a "U"

What alot of people do is, create an awesome map (such as yours) and ship it off to a friend or another mapper to "fix" any problems or clippings they encounter. :) If ya ever need anyone to comment, suggest, or fix little problems in your upcoming maps just hit me up =P




Fragger

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22nd April 2002

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#7 14 years ago

Here's my $0.02: I noticed the clipping (z-fighting gives it away), but what bothered me the most was your usage of textures and the simple architecture. In that picture of the stairs you can see that the texture on the steps makes no sense. That looks like a door or wall texture. The walls are made of single brushes. Try to make them of at least 2 brushes: 1 for the top and another for the bottom, and have a different texture for each. There. Hope you won't take it as a flame. :)




Ultima2x

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27th June 2004

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#8 14 years ago

I didn't want to get too deep on the textures as it's an early build of the map. I just wanted to get into the basic geometry and clipping issues (it's better to fix them as you go then go back and fix them all at once).

But yeah.. fragger makes some good points.




Bytrix

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22nd October 2003

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#9 14 years ago

I haven't tried the map yet coz I'm at work, but caulking is very important too (dunno if you have caulked it all).

And for clipping I've never liked leaving that empty edge inbetween the corners of two brushes because I've sometimes got leaks out of the gap (even though there should be none). So I prefer to do my boxes likes this whenever I can :

Where green faces show the textures a player can see, and the pink faces are all textured with caulk.

[EDIT] why the heck won't it let me put an image in my post without using the stupid attachment thing?

"Your Post contains one or more URLs, please remove them before submitting your message again.__________________ Users registering just to spam your url. Your post will be edited and url will be altered to prevent anyone from going there. We're here to talk, not for you to just advertise. You've been warned."




Ultima2x

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#10 14 years ago

You need more posts to post an actual URL/Image.... It's a register-spam advertisement protection. Anyhow, Yeah.. that's a much cleaner way to do the "good box". Altho, in the end it's the same polies. But deff a cleaner way to do it.

And yes caulking is important, that's what i was getting at when i said that if you can't see the object.. don't texture it. :) >_O shoulda just said caulking.




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