Game less fun with new strafing -1 reply

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Fluffy[imported]

I don't spend enough time here

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13th December 2000

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#1 16 years ago

For me atleast, the game is alot less fun with the new slower strafing. Its now a lot less about skill, and a lot more about who fires first, or has the biggest gun to fire.

Personally, I would hate to see Purge become a futuristic version but of counterstrike (I despise realistic tactical shooters).




Hap

People say I post too much

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11th June 2001

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#2 16 years ago

There should be no reason anyone can run at full speed strafing or backwards. It should be a given that all biped humanoids can run faster forwards than side-to-side. It is the nature of upright movement.

In this case, if you NEED to circle strafe, you NEED high or maxed Agility. It depends on which attribute you are willing to give up for that Agility.

Also, Purge was always designed as tactical and teamwork-type game. Soloing would always mean death except strategic soloing which supports the team.

In Phase 4, this will be come even more evident as defenders can repair the portal or build barriers to slowdown advancing opponents. We will see the fabled dynamic choke points, that we talked about all those months back.




pyro2k

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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4th February 2002

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#3 16 years ago

Yes, but someone could also run with their torso turned to one side. (Or, running while holding a strafe button so you are facing where enemies might be when you come around a corner.

I think this change is about as bad as the CStrike anti-hopping thing.




Hap

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11th June 2001

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#4 16 years ago

You could not run at full speed with the torso sideways. You already strafe at over 19 mph with Agility 15 (Good). (I believe it is actually 21 mph.) I don't think you do even do that in real life.




Hap

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11th June 2001

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#5 16 years ago

Incidently it is balanced so that:

15 Agility (Good) Run: 30 mph Strafe/Back: 21 mph

25 Agility (Excellent) Strafe/Back: 30 mph

Note: all values rounded.




Blaise

Sexeh like teh gizmo

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28th March 2002

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#6 16 years ago

i think its good... any ways when people are able to level this will make it better you have to have set how you like it and work your way up...




pyro2k

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4th February 2002

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#7 16 years ago

I really don't care about the backpeddeling, just as long as you move the same speed while strafing WHILE running.

With that ability removed, then you can't fight worth a damn, and the game is no longer fun to play.

I mean, seriously, ANYONE can turn their head while running and still maintain their speed. With it is as it is right now, to round a 90 degree corner like in a hallway, you would need to run into the middle of the intersection of the two hallways, and turn 90 degrees. Do that, and you can't see in to the hallway, you're entering, so you'll get purged if someone's there.

However, what I normally do is strafe so that i'm facing the hallway I wish to enter so if someone could possibly be there, I could easily shoot at them, possibly before they shoot at me. I can't do this with this method, becuase I travel VERY slowly.

If you were to circle strafe around someone in the real world, you would be running in a circle around the person with your torso/weapon pointed at them. You would not be sidesteping.

So, unless we gain the ability to turn our heads/torsos independently of where we're aiming at, this new 'feature' is unless and annoying.

[This message has been edited by pyro2k (edited August 05, 2002).]




Blaise

Sexeh like teh gizmo

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28th March 2002

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#8 16 years ago

or you could just adjust your agility, I have no problem with strafing, if they make it so that everyone plays the same and nothing is sacraficed for something else, then they might as well jsut get rid of the details




Fluffy[imported]

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13th December 2000

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#9 16 years ago

Even with "Very Good" agility, its next to impossible to dodge incoming fire. If you can see someone, you can hit them. The only thing stopping you from getting 100% accuracy is weapon spread.

You win based on weapon, and who shoots first. Am I the only one who doesnt find that very fun?




Hap

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#10 16 years ago

The only reason very high strafe speed made you dodge better is NOT because of actual dodging. It is because of the "skippies". Lower speed reduces the "skippies".

It has to do with network lag and why a game like Counter-Strike doesn't seem to stuffer as much from skipping and staggering client-side prediction.

Let's say you have 200 ping and your opponent has 200 ping.

When an opponent runs forward, a player will run a given direction. Your client-side will predict his movement in that direction. This usually works well.

When an opponent starts strafing however, you will get the "skippies" because YOU, the client, needs to wait 400ms (the combined ping in this example) to be notified that he can moved to the left or right. The opponent has tell the server that he started to strafe... which will take 200 ms to reach the server. You, as a client, will need to wait 200ms for the server to tell you this.

At this point, you are about .4 seconds (400 ms/ping) behind reality. If you fire at where your opponent is PREDICTED to go, you'd be wrong. You might get a single client-predicted hit, but you can't follow up the shot because your screen will correct the mistake and jerk/skip him to where he should be. Due Purge great run speed, it will very far back and at some random location (about 44 ft/sec at 15 Agility) -- making the second shot almost impossible.

So the faster you move, the faster you jerk. It is a fake dodge which is simply an exploitable problem with internet games. That's why in Counter-Strike you were able to avoid getting hit by tap left-strafe then right-strafe repeatedly.

With the lower speeds, the skipping is very small. If a person continues strafe left or right, then the prediction will catch up. It is the sudden and rapid speed change in direction that affects prediction.

One the problems is you can run amazingly fast in Purge. Over 40 mph with max starting Agility. Most other games you simply cannot run this fast. In fact, I do believe 25 Agility is FASTER than the Runner Alien from AvP2.

It is **very** possible you cannot dodge incoming attacks. Lightning and the XL5 are instant hit. With client-side hit prediction and WITHOUT skippies, if ON THEIR SIDE they shoot you, they get credit regardless if you dodged the shot on your side.

LET ME SAY IT ANOTHER WAY IF YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND!

Because there is no more skippies, if the opponent's screen shows a plausable hit, they will get credit. It doesn't matter if you dodge the shot on your side. Since the client-side prediction doesn't jerk around and is smooth as silk, it is easy to follow up one hit with another hit. It is how it is in real-life. THIS ISN'T SKEET SHOOTING. If you've played paintball you know hitting a guy more than once after the first shot is pretty darn easy. Especially because a paintgun has such low kick.

Projectile prediction works similiar to this -- the Plasma and Fireball moves at 750 ft/s (228 m/s) which is faster than paintball but slower than bullet. You would only be able to dodge a shot that fast at about 750+ ft away. People with 900 ping have both an disadvange and advantage in this situation.

It really comes down to is this game optimized to "client-side" correctness or "server-side" correctness. This... my friends... is the "magic bullet" people always talk about. Until psychic computers are invented, there nothing anyone can do. The slower strafe makes for better network lag prediction. That's why other games do it.

Unless I hear a nerf the run speed overall or hear someone wanting server-side hit detection (I bet you guys can name another Lithtech game using that style), it isn't changing.

How about make the characters run at realistic speeds like America's Army? (About at 33% nerf at Agility 15.)

You can go ahead and raise a vote for "server-side hit detection only" or "nerf run speed" and we will see...

However, what I normally do is strafe so that i'm facing the hallway I wish to enter so if someone could possibly be there, I could easily shoot at them, possibly before they shoot at me. I can't do this with this method, becuase I travel VERY slowly.

There is a slighty ramp-up/acceleration for strafing. This to avoid the "skippies" and for the jerk to decides want do (left-strafe, right-strafe, left-strafe, right-strafe) to avoid getting hit. You can still do it, but not nearly as effectively.

Once strafing has reached maximum speed, faster than any human can do it. The fact of the matter is America's Special Force soldiers can't suddenly strafe and burst fire. They more likely to go prone or crouch. Your superhuman Android/Mage is already doing 21 mph average, can you?

Also, Purge deals with massively high damage weapons, so split second is missed aim (because you are strafing) could mean death. It takes less than 1 second for the Plasma Rifle to eliminate a 10 Life (100 HP) Mage.

In the end, you could just sux0r. biggrin.gif If you miss your first shot and they land their shots, you are dead. It just takes 4 shots from the Plasma Rifle to kill you (100 HP). (2 if you have 50 HP.) So every shot counts. Maybe you should be guarding the base instead. smile.gif

Unless I hear a huge call for weapon damage nerfs, I'm not going to do anything about it.

[edited for typo]

[This message has been edited by Hap (edited August 06, 2002).]




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