Operation Felix - Feasibility Poll -1 reply

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Ruoska

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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1st February 2008

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#1 12 years ago

Hello everyone,

I have gotten into my head that assault on Gibraltar might be a fun scenario to play, following German plan Operation Felix (sceduled 10th January, 1941 - never actually realized given Franco's either overplayed hand or more likely unwillingness to join Axis and making the terms high enough to avoid saying "no" directly). [COLOR=DimGray]Casual wiki information for interested at [/COLOR][COLOR=DimGray]Operation Felix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Military history of Gibraltar during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/COLOR]

What I wish to poll from you, most esteemed map makers and designers, is weather or not this undertaking would be feasible with BF2 engine and it's limitations - an aspect I have virtually no information, not having made a single map yet myself.

I anticipate problems with following aspects;

  1. Tunneling I have noticed that trenches aren't carved into the land, but are located in depressions that are filled with modeled ground and the trench itself. This makes me suspect that it may be impossible to model any of the vast tunnel systems in Gibraltar with this engine.
  2. Parachute spawning Is it possible to spawn paratroopers in mid air, with their chute open?
  3. Radio-controlled Goliath midget tanks Not a show-stopper, but curious if there are even remote possibilities to model this eventually, given enough time, coffee and stubborness. Your opinion/estimate on this is appreciated.
  4. Scale I have come to understand that the maximum map dimensions for BF2 engine to run are 2km x 2km (hight?). This would mean that the actual topography would need to be scaled a lot (4 to 1, or close to it). Is 2km x 2km the maximum map or could you do 10km x 10km, which would allow 1:1 topography?
  5. Am I mad You tell me - you have experience modding with these tools, I don't :). I only ever have done maps with Crysis editor and tools, and I have understood that's child's play compared to most modding.

This is completely in the concepting phase for now. I'm digging information about the plan and Brittish garrisons, looking for photographs from the time and such. I'm quite happy to leave it at that, if your experience tells me that this isn't doable or would be murder for clients to run.

Thank You in advance!

Br,

Ruoska




Fenring

FH Dev

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29th November 2006

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#2 12 years ago

1. Youll need to model the caves or let someone else do it for you since heightmaps cant feature overhangs.

2. Yes this is possible check for "SpawnAsPara" line or something in spawnpoint or controlpoint.

3. Im not sure about this, may not be possible.

4.Maximum size is 4x4km with scale 4, remeber that the higher the scale the less detail on heightmaps, detail-, color- and lowdetailtextures. Also scale 4 is not offifcialy supported dynamic shadows for planes dont work. Only Scale 2 is proven to be faultless and that means maximum size of 2x2km.

5. I have only little experience with Cryeditor but apart from non existant internal support for heightmaps and large scale realistic texturing in bf2editor I dont think the differences in simplicity are that huge. Maybe there exists more documentation for crysis and therefore making the learning curve not so steep. But if you learn to fix heightmaps and textures from external sources (photoshop, dem, terrain-generator) its not that bad and huge improvement from the old battlecraft for bf1942.

Performance depends on viewdistance/number of objects on map




caeno

Yeah.

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8th August 2003

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#3 12 years ago

SpawnAsPara doesen't quite work the way it worked in BF1942.

Quote from another forum:

Ctz told me how to add chutes to the different kits, this is the tmp.con on my crete map:

code: objecttemplate.activesafe kit GM_ScoutK98Short objecttemplate.addtemplate germanparachutelauncher

objecttemplate.activesafe kit GM_NCOMP40 objecttemplate.addtemplate germanparachutelauncher

objecttemplate.activesafe kit GA_PickUpSniperK98 objecttemplate.addtemplate germanparachutelauncher

That adds chutes to the Shultze or what ever the name is, the German Officer and the german sniper pickup.

If you just use regular classes on the map and have SpawnAsPara spawnpoint on the map, the guy just falls to his death everytime you spawn in the air - BF2 doesen't give them the chute anymore, so you have to manually add the chute and then choose the right class ingame to be able to use a paraspawn.

As far as I know... :)




Ruoska

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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1st February 2008

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#4 12 years ago

Hi again,

I have this nagging in the back of my head that I read somewhere, relatively sane instructions on how to use real world topographical data in game maps. Albeit, sitting here all the evening and most of the night, I could not find this article/forum post...

If anyway feasible, I would rather use real data, scale it as I must, and go from there - given that the location is not that much bigger than the (best supported) 2km x 2km map (Gibraltar and the airport can fit into 10km x 10km grid, making it 5 to 1 scale - still acceptable, I imagine).

As I said, I was having a hard time locating the article/post, and the best I could do was retrieve SRTM3 data from NASA (Shuttle Radar Topography Mission, 3" x 3" granularity). Geophysical Research Abstracts, Vol. 6, 04163 of European Geosciences Union 2004 (SRef-ID: 1607-7962/gra/EGU04-A-04163) states that "...standard deviation of height differences between DEM and the GPS points is around 10 m whereby we find a significant positive height offset of about 7 m." (photogrammetric images can only map the surface of vegetation) However, observing the rendered result it is very hard to believe that the data is accurate to 10 meters (see the attached images). This would have been just brilliant - 10 meter granularity would translate into 2 meters at 5:1 scale, just what the grid size in the map would be, therefore giving more satisfactory results for the scaled map. Either something is wrong in the DEM rendering, or the data is not what it should be in precision (or I'm being somehow confused).

[ATTACH]62404[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]62405[/ATTACH]

I read this http://forums.filefront.com/fh-mapping/343397-battle-keren-5-feb-1941-a.html post about a map that took some assistance from Google Earth. So I took a look and unfortunately it was as crappy as I have come to know Google Earth topography to be :( (see below image)

[ATTACH]62406[/ATTACH]

Both of these fall well short of the desired results, that would resemble these model images...

[ATTACH]62407[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]62408[/ATTACH]

I am beginning to be at my wits end trying to manage this topographical challenge, and I would dearly appreciate any hints, links or info anyone could share with me. (pretty please).

Fenring;42520661. Youll need to model the caves or let someone else do it for you since heightmaps cant feature overhangs.

I was pondering over this for some time and came to the conclusion that BF2 engine does not allow "puncturing" a hole into the heightmap that would be used as an entrance to the underground models. Am I correct to assume that if I want to have caves and tunnels, everything (the whole mountain) on top of it will have to be modeled separetely?

Thank You very much for your attention and help!

Br,

Ruoska

P.S. Fenring, I am eagerly waiting for the resurrection of your mapping guides in Wiki :naughty: (Althou I seem to have issues getting the BF2Editor to run properly still)