Best US military branch (revised) -1 reply

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Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

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26th April 2004

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#31 15 years ago

So the SS didnt have capable leaders? Yeah right...




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#32 15 years ago

'[130pz.Kading']the USMC is effective in that they almost always get the job done, but they have a terrible tactical doctrine. "but kading" you say, "i thought the USMC's marksmanship was all the battle." wrong, the problem with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children is that they use poor tactics. they dont believe in extensive preperation of an objective before moving on it. as a result, they suffer higher casualty rates than the army. they could be compared (MILITARY WISE!!) to the german SS. NOT TO SAY THEY ARE MURDERERS!!! DONT HATE ME!!! but the SS didnt have especially good leadership, but they were motivated troops that were well equipped. now dont get me wrong, i will toast to the marine corps as fast as the next guy.

PLEASE DONT KILL ME!!!!

I do not agree that the USMC uses ineffective tactics.

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that the Marines are often given the difficult tasks because of the fact that they can be counted on to get the job done. These difficult tasks often involve assaults and close in fighting and that often means casulties.




[130pz.]Kading

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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9th April 2005

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#33 15 years ago

its true, the SS had incompitent leaders that were appointed mainly for their political conections and charisma. they were good leaders but poor soldiers. ever wonder why all the german generals that were famous for their military prowess were in the regular army?




BUGS]FHMod[

Forgotten Hope Mod Team

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16th August 2004

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#34 15 years ago
USMA2010They have a little bit of everything

I guess every "branch" has a little bit of everything within the US forces ;)




Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

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26th April 2004

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#35 15 years ago
'[130pz.Kading']its true, the SS had incompitent leaders that were appointed mainly for their political conections and charisma. they were good leaders but poor soldiers. ever wonder why all the german generals that were famous for their military prowess were in the regular army?

Are you talking leaders as high up as Gruppenführer or more like Hauptsturmführers? confusedx.gif 'Cause after what I've read, the SS had some of the best mid-level commanders!




[130pz.]Kading

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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#36 15 years ago

have you ever heard of any? has anyone who doesnt read about the SS heard of them? and if they were so good, why did they consistantly take massive casualties for objectives similar to their regular army counterparts?




Sgt. Krotchrot

On FF's shortest leash

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18th March 2005

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#37 15 years ago

[color=black]I while in the Army corp. of Engineers participated in many a debate (Yeah right) with Marines in Panama about this very subject. Conclusion is as follows. One it really hard to get your point across when bottles keep flying at your head. Two it's almost impossible to keep the conversation focused with two black eyes.[/color]

[color=black] The Marines are much smaller than the Army. as they are only a Corp. And they are under naval command whether they want to admit or not. Up until a few years ago there pay checks still said Dept. of the Navy on them. They are a reaction force. The Army is a fighting force and has a much larger responsibility than the Marines, period. The Marines call themselves Warriors to signify there great fighting abilities (or boost their egos). The Army calls themselves Soldiers because they are supposed to be professionals. Both couldn't be further from the truth. Marines spend 5 weeks in BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) the Army spends 8 weeks. This is one of the reasons why the Army marksmen tend to win the competitions matches between the two services in Olympic trials. The Marines go to Army facilities to train for Airborne, Engineers, and Artillery to name a few. The Army never has had to use a Marine facility to train soldiers.[/color]

[color=black] Fighting history; the Marines (this one always pisses off the jar heads) had to be relieved at Guadalcanal by the Army and again during the Tet offensive in Vietnam. The 2nd Cav. made the break through that relieved the besieged Marines at the battle of Khe Sanh. Although to the Marines credit they did repel numerous attacks and never broke.[/color]

[color=black] Lastly the Marines flat out have way better uniforms and PR (Public Relations) than the Army. After all John Wayne played a Marine. If only the Army would go back to brown & khaki’s, instead of the puke greens.[/color]




[130pz.]Kading

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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#38 15 years ago

HAH!! and the funny part about the marksmanship thing is that the marines are uber proud of thier marksmanship and they train them for a little more than half the time. i also find it hilarious that marines refuse to believe that they arent under navy jurisdiction. ITS IN THE NAME!

marine: adj. of or relating to the sea. n. a soldier serving on a ship or at a naval installation




emonkies

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#39 15 years ago

Sgt. Krotchrot [color=black]I while in the Army corp. of Engineers participated in many a debate (Yeah right) with Marines in Panama about this very subject. Conclusion is as follows. One it really hard to get your point across when bottles keep flying at your head. Two it's almost impossible to keep the conversation focused with two black eyes.[/color]

[color=black] The Marines are much smaller than the Army. as they are only a Corp. And they are under naval command whether they want to admit or not. [/quote]

Dont you worry, Marines know their heritage, who they are and where they come from. Of course the Marines are smaller than the Army, we have never been charged with the defense of the country, that is the Army's job.

The Marine originated out of a need for troops specialized in amphibious Operations and ship security. Since they have everything they need to take with them into combat loaded on ships and stationed around the world (A MAU) they have been given the job of acting as a fast reaction force around the world. Used to be the USMC was the only US military force that could be deployed into a foreign country without requiring a act of war from Congress. I dont know if this has changed or not.

Sgt. Krotchrot Up until a few years ago there pay checks still said Dept. of the Navy on them. They are a reaction force. The Army is a fighting force and has a much larger responsibility than the Marines, period. [/quote]

No argument, see above. I seem to remember the USAAF people having the same argument with Army people prior to 1947.

Sgt. Krotchrot The Marines call themselves Warriors to signify there great fighting abilities (or boost their egos). The Army calls themselves Soldiers because they are supposed to be professionals. Both couldn't be further from the truth. [/quote]

The Marines have always prided themselves on being a professional and disciplined elite fighting force, and every piece on a Marines dress blues has a historical significance. The Marines call themselves warriors because they consider themselves a smaller but experienced military force experienced in combat and amphibious operations and carrying a high amount of Esprit De Corp.

war·ri·or (wôr-r, wr-): 1. One who is engaged in or experienced in battle.

sol·dier (sljr): 1. One who serves in an army.

Sgt. Krotchrot Marines spend 5 weeks in BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) the Army spends 8 weeks. This is one of the reasons why the Army marksmen tend to win the competitions matches between the two services in Olympic trials. [/quote]

You forgot to mention that Marines have a 13 week bootcamp of which 5 weeks is BRM training, and are also the only US service to still train shooters to 500yds.

This is because all Marines are first and foremost infantry regardless of their other job. After Bootcamp the Marines who enter infantry roles go to The School of Infantry East or West for advanced infantry training where they get specialized weapons training and further marksmanship training.

Isnt Army bootcamp still only 8 weeks?

Also IIRC one of the top snipers in Vietnam was a Marine? Sergeant Carlos Hathcock with 93 confirmed kills?

[QUOTE=Sgt. Krotchrot] The Marines go to Army facilities to train for Airborne, Engineers, and Artillery to name a few. The Army never has had to use a Marine facility to train soldiers.[/color]

Why pay for our own base when we can use yours? As for Artillery I assume you are referring to Fort Sills?

Also to my recollection the US only has a few bases to call their own. MCRD San Diego, MCRD Parris Island, MCAS Cherry Point, 29 Palms, Quantico, Camp Pendleton, and a few others that escape me now.

All Marine Field Artillerymen - both officer and enlisted - are trained at the United States Army Field Artillery Training Center. Although Marine presence at Fort Sill dates back to the 1950's, the Marine Detachment was formally established in October 1977, in conjunction with the closure of the Marine Barracks, Naval Ammunition Depot, at McAlester, Oklahoma. The Marine Corps representative to Fort Sill was designated as the Commanding Officer, Marine Corps Personnel.

Mission of the Marine Detachment

* Serve as liaison between the Commandant of the Marine Corps and the Commanding General, U. S. Army Field Artillery Center and Fort Sill. * Doctrinal proponent for fire support within the Marine Corps. * Provide instructors to various branches of the United States Army Field Artillery School.

http://sill-www.army.mil/usmc/INDEX.htm

Ever heard of Naval Amphibious base Little Creek, Va.? There was Army there when I was there.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Krotchrot] [color=black] Fighting history; the Marines (this one always pisses off the jar heads) had to be relieved at Guadalcanal by the Army and again during the Tet offensive in Vietnam. The 2nd Cav. made the break through that relieved the besieged Marines at the battle of Khe Sanh. Although to the Marines credit they did repel numerous attacks and never broke.[/color]

Yes it does piss off Marines because thats utter crap and you know it. The Marines landed on Guadalcanal in August 1942 and were not relieved til December 10th 1942. The Japanese were already beaten by then. All the Army did was come in and mop up against a Japanese force who were in the process of trying to evacuate their troops off of the islands.

The majority of the Marines that came off Guadalcanal were sent to Burma and formed the core of Merrils Marauders where most of them died. Others were trained for and participated in the Tarawa landings.

Can you be more specific about Tet? Where did the Army come to save the Marines? My recollection is that the USMC was busy with Khe Sanh, Hue, and Pleiku during the Tet Offensive. At Khe Sanh the Marines were ordered to hold their ground and hold they did. Your taking credit for "saving" the Marines just like Patton took credit for "saving" the 101st Airborne at Bastogne. Neither group ever agreed that they needed rescuing.

[color=black] Lastly the Marines flat out have way better uniforms and PR (Public Relations) than the Army. After all John Wayne played a Marine. If only the Army would go back to brown & khaki’s, instead of the puke greens.[/color]

It wasnt that long ago that the Marines wore the same BDU's the Army wore. Usually it is the Marines that have to make do with old and worn out equipment.

It is no secret that the Army has been trying to shut down the Marines since they were formed.

[QUOTE='[130pz.]Kading']HAH!! and the funny part about the marksmanship thing is that the marines are uber proud of thier marksmanship and they train them for a little more than half the time. i also find it hilarious that marines refuse to believe that they arent under navy jurisdiction. ITS IN THE NAME!

marine: adj. of or relating to the sea. n. a soldier serving on a ship or at a naval installation

Once again Kading you open your mouth and prove your ignorance. PLease learn the facts before embarrasing yourself again.

Marines have always been under the Navy, but the Department of the Navy, not under the command of the United States Navy. The Commandant of the Marine Corp answers to the Secretary of Navy, not to a Navy officer.

The Marine Corps was originally created as the "Continental Marines" during the American Revolutionary War, were formed by a resolution of the Continental Congress on November 10, 1775, and first recruited at Tun Tavern in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. They served as landing troops for the recently created Continental Navy.

While concerned almost exclusively with shipboard security service and amphibious warfare in its formative years, the Marine Corps has evolved to fill a unique, multi-purpose role within the modern United States military.

The United States Marine Corp is modelled off the British Royal Marines and is the only US service to carry the rank of Lance Corporal.

ADJECTIVE: 4. Of or relating to troops that serve at sea as well as on land, specifically the U.S. Marine Corps.

NOUN: 2. Marine A member of the U.S. Marine Corps.

Reputation of the Marine Corps

The Marine Corps has a widely-held reputation as a fierce and effective fighting force and the Marines take pride in their gung-ho attitude, are indoctrinated with a strong belief in their chain of command and the importance of esprit de corps, a spirit of enthusiasm and pride in themselves and the Corps. The Marine Corps is popularly seen as possessing a degree of fame and infamy among the enemies they fight, and examples of this effect are readily seized upon and publicized by the Corps and its supporters. During the 1991 Gulf War, U.S. Army General Norman Schwarzkopf used a public demonstration of a Marine landing on Kuwait and the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr to pin down Iraqi units, while the Army then executed a sweep from the West.




Sgt. Krotchrot

On FF's shortest leash

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18th March 2005

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#40 15 years ago

[color=black]Wow your scary good! Remind me never to piss you off if I haven’t already. I can't keep track of all those quotes so I'll just rant. Yeah that Guadalcanal crack is chicken shit, called me on that one. You’re wrong about the Army trying to shut down the USMC. Because no way in hell would the Army want to be that near the Navy. You CAN keep them pal. If it’s wasn’t for the Marines they’d suck at every sport, but I digress.[/color] [color=black]Back to marksmanship, yes the Army quit shooting the 500 yards because they went to “pop ups” which was proven to be more effective in training riflemen. The Marines stayed with the stationary silhouettes.[/color] [color=black]I don’t have the specifics about Tet and will try to get them. But as I recall the 2nd Cav. Was dropped in North West of Khe Sanh with the objective of taking the hills the NVA were using to shell the base from. But like I said the Marines never broke and in fact the NVA’s last attack was far less intense than the previous ones. Again it’s probably more chicken shit than anything else. [/color] [color=black]Old Sergeant Carlos Hathcock with 93 confirmed kills might be the best Marine sniper ever. But, Lee Harvey Oswald will always be the most famous Marine sniper. Thus the “misguided” part in the old saying.[/color] [color=black]I can’t argue with any of your facts (what else is new) the Marines are bad asses and anyone who doubts that is just clueless. But I still think comparing the Marines to the Army is like comparing the Coast Guard to the Navy. Ones far more specialized for a particular task.[/color] [color=black]One last thing though, if a warrior is someone who has experience in battle. Why do the Marines call themselves warriors’ from the get go? And uh just how big was El Duce’s boot anyway?[/color]