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Dr.Fritz

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6th July 2005

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#1 12 years ago

I am curious about the French SS. I know it was called Charlemegne. But what was it's order of battle and where did it fight (besides France). Can any one provide me with some info? Pics of them fighting or of the uniform? Thanks :) .




stiner

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#2 12 years ago
Dr.FritzI am curious about the French SS. I know it was called Charlemegne. But what was it's order of battle and where did it fight (besides France). Can any one provide me with some info? Pics of them fighting or of the uniform? Thanks :) .

heres 2 links with pictures you can find out from the links ;) http://axis101.bizland.com/Charlemagne1.htm http://sweb.cz/freiwilligen/DOBROVOLNICI/33adivize.htm




Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

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25th April 2004

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#3 12 years ago

Heres something for you:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French)

33SSCM.jpgFranzösische Grenadier-Infantrie-Regiment.638 (Légion des Volontaires Français) Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Sturmbrigade Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Regiment Waffen-Grenadier-Brigade der SS Charlemagne (französische Nr.1) 33.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne (französische Nr.1)

The 33.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne (französische Nr. 1) and Charlemagne Regiment are collective names used for units of French volunteers in the Wehrmacht and later Waffen-SS during the World War II. The Charlemagne division was not a single military unit but succession of groups of collaborating French volunteers (though the exact nature of "volunteering" has been disputed). The first unit was the Légion des Volontaires Français (Legion of French Volunteers or LVF), mainly composed of right-wing Frenchmen and released French soldiers who preferred fighting to forced labour in Germany. It fought near Moscow in November 1941 but its commander, Colonel Roger Balonne, was later relieved of his duties and in 1942 the men were assigned to anti-partisan duties in the Byelorussian SSR (Belarus). They were briefly joined by La Légion Tricolore (Tricolor Regiment) but this unit lasted only six months in 1942 and was later absorbed into the LVF. The unit (without a French commander) was attached to various German divisions until June 1943 when Colonel Edgard Puaud took command. The LVF fought on the Ukraine front against the Soviets in 1944. In the meantime, in July 1943, a new recruiting drive had begun in Vichy France. It attracted 3000 applicants, mostly members of collaborating militias and university students. This unit (Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Sturmbrigade) was sent to Galicia to fight the Soviet advance and suffered heavy casualties. It was later absorbed into the LVF. In late 1943 the surviving LVF/Sturmbrigade volunteers were inducted into the Waffen-SS Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Regiment (Waffen-SS French SS-Volunteer Grenadier Regiment.) In September 1944 this unit was renamed Waffen-Grenadier-Brigade der SS Charlemagne, with the addition of French collaborators fleeing the Allied advance in the west, as well as Frenchmen from the Horst Wessel brigade and Organisation Todt. Others came from the Vichy French Milice and other collaborationist organizations. Some sources claim that the unit included also volunteers from French colonies and Switzerland. SS-Brigadeführer Gustav Krukenberg took actual command with Edgard Puaud (now Oberführer der SS) as nominal French commander. In February 1945 the unit was officially upgraded to a division and renamed 33.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne. However, the unit was severely undermanned with only 7340 men. The division was sent by train to fight against the Red Army in Poland, but on 25 February it was attacked while deploying from the railhead by troops of the Soviet 1st Belorussian Front and was broken into three battlegroups. Only the units with Krukenberg survived, as they retreated to the Baltic coast, were evacuated by sea to Denmark and later sent to Neutrelitz for refitting. In early April 1945, Krukenberg, now commanding only 1100 men, released those who were disillusioned from combat service; about 700 men chose to remain. The other 400 men were formed into a construction battalion. On 24-25 April 1945 elements of the unit were ordered to Berlin and placed under the command of SS-Standartenführer Walter Zimmermann, reaching the city before the Soviet encirclement. They fought in the Battle of Berlin until 2 May 1945, when thirty survivors surrendered to the Russians. Some sources say that in the Battle of Berlin the French volunteers were responsible for most of the destroyed Soviet tanks. Due to a lack of working tanks and heavy anti-tank wepaons, the defenders of Berlin especially used infantry-based anti-tank weapons, like the Panzerfaust and the Panzerschreck. While the effective firing-range of these weapons were very small - to destroy most of the Soviet tank-types with the Panzerfaust the soldier had to be as close as 20m-30m to the target - the possibility to get killed during the attempt to destroy an enemy tank in this way was high.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#4 12 years ago

Don't you love how everyone joined in to help out Germany exterminate undesirables? Such nice people(I kid, bitterly)




jumjum

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#5 12 years ago

I know you're intrigued by the SS elite-warrior mystique, Fritz, and they were very good and tenacious fighters. But you can't separate them from their dogma: there were no "nice" SS. I have no problem if after the war they had the moral courage to truly and fully admit thier fault and renounce all their prior fascist beleifs and loyalty to Hilter. But there are still some of the old bastards around who are pissed off they lost, and have over the years twisted their history so that they now argue Germany was merely courageously defending Western Civilization against the new Mongol Hordes. (Nice ratonalization by guys who were the ones doing the unprovoked invading.)

Case in point, I'm now reading "Armor Battles Of The SS" by Willi Fey, who started his war in 1943 as a driver of Pz IV F's and H's in the 2 SS Panzer Division ("Das Reich") in Russia, and finished as a tank-killer team leader in Berlin. Along the way he commanded a Tiger in Normandy in Schwere Abteilung 102, and was facquainted with Wittmann, Barkmann, Meyer, etc. The old bastard still can't admit he was soundly defeated (he says it was only the tank production rates of the US and the Lend Lease program alone which doomed Germany, otherwise they'd rule the world. heh.), and won't renounce Hitler! As for the book, it has info you can't find anywhere else, but the translation is horrid, just flat and stodgy.

As to your Charlemagne guys, look up Leon Degrelle, their leader, whom Htiler said he wished had been his son. Google up a speech/paper he gave in the 80's. i hope you read it and can see what a decietful, dissembling reprobate he was, and that even forty years later he remained as full of hatred for Jews and untermenschen as when he first swore an oath giving his body, mind and soul to Adolph Hitler.You want to learn about some absolutely fearless fighters who were subjected to torture and never gave in? Who met death without flinching? Llearn about The White Rose and you'll find some examples of true courage.




roterschnee

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#6 12 years ago
Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#7 12 years ago

The only group that I admire that could be considered a terrorist group is the Hagina.




Komrad_B

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#8 12 years ago
jumjum As to your Charlemagne guys, look up Leon Degrelle, their leader, whom Htiler said he wished had been his son.

Wasn't Leon Degrelle Belgian? :uhm:




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#9 12 years ago

i admire al qaeda:Puzzled:




stiner

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#10 12 years ago