I had some business to take care of friday and had to skip it. Ive got a little project going in the basement and caught it in its entirety last night on youtube. Im surprised no one is discussing it and I think I know why. Looked like McCain mopped the floor with Obama. About the half way mark I thought it was neck and neck, McCain had a few zingers in there but Obama was gonna win it slow and steady. Boy was I wrong. McCain pulled out the big guns for the second half. I really didnt know that he had it in him. I had to hit rewind a few times due to the hilarity of some of his comments. You guys should know I am an independent who probably leans right. My mind is in no way made up yet with regard to who Im going to vote for. I like Obama's ambition. But I really like McCain's promise to end earmarking. Obama's failings... he has GOT to stop attacking McCain by attacking Bush. He needs to focus on McCain and his record. I think we'll see that change. He was really heavy with that on Friday and I dont think it gets him anywhere. I believe that we will see that adjustment on the next debate. He also needs to be more forceful, rude in fact. When McCain was not allowing him to speak. Is it wrong to think that Obama may have even been embarrassed a bit? Backed into the corner? Kind of seemed that way. McCain I thought, really surprised Obama on Friday. Bringing his "naivete" out and even making accusations to the fact, hurt him bad. I dont think Obama even addressed it, which makes it a little worse. McCain seemed like a shark smelling blood. I think he's gonna keep that strategy and we'll see Obama come out with both barrels. One other thing. How about McCain dropping all of those "Tershinkov's and Bublinkov's"!!! That had me rolling, while a completely transparent attempt to show foreign affair superiority, he still did it well. McCain tied his whole arguments together. Obama... not so much. Obama did have a great moment though, when McCain accused him of not knowing the difference between tactics and strategy. He finished it all off with a witty comment, using the word "strategy". I thought it was pretty powerful but if you werent paying attention, you may have missed it. McCain 1 Obama 0
In Vino Veritas
28th August 2006
I think Obama Was stronger than McCain
13th May 2004
erm you must live in a different world than me cause to me OBama won by a large margin( and so did majority of the USA), i simply didnt make a thread cause 1.i feel sorry for the ones still supporting McCain having to try and talk him through this 2. i think it was nice not to have politics all over the OT for a change.
But you opened pandoras box so here we go.
he has GOT to stop attacking McCain by attacking Bush. He needs to focus on McCain and his record
HE does that so people realize McCain is pretty much in line with Bush on all his policies, and obama has to do that so people understand the past 8 years wont change, 90% voting along with bush, same tax policies, giving tax breaks to companies and rich people and barely any to middle class, trickle down effect has failed.
And he does go for McCains voting record, aka why it has to do with bush, also why obama mentions how McCain voted against the military, especially veterans care, i posted that record before, i dont mind posting it again for you.
Kind of seemed that way. McCain I thought, really surprised Obama on Friday. Bringing his "naivete" out and even making accusations to the fact, hurt him bad
Whats naive about obama? McCain did his best trying to redicule the talking to iran bit, but obama made it clear that talking didnt mean giving in, or going into talks unprepared, and be honest diplomacy should be the prefered way and only way to approach those things. Look how no talks got you into the mess with iraq and north korea, would you rather have McCain and be the tough guy who doesnt talk and straight up go to war? i thought we could at least learn our lesson.
All i saw McCain talk about was the past, "hey i did this and that in the past",or "remember back when that president blablalba" what will he do in the future? i didnt hear alot about that, he got a bracelet from a soldiers mom who said he should win the war, so.... that mom should decide if you stay in or not? oh btw obama has one too ;)
As for judgement all McCain has going for is the surge, and as obama said the war didnt start in 2007 but in 2003, and after supporting a war that cost 4200 US lives the surge looks rather bleak.
You might very well think that
21st February 2004
Have to agree with the others, Obama mopped the floor with McCain, not the other way around. McCain got severely embarassed when Obama turned his whole 'you voted against the surge' tactic against him - that tricolon of 'you were wrong' was a masterstroke.
I'm afraid it looks to stand more like Obama 1 McCain 0, at least if you accept what the majority of America thinks (which is what matters come election day).
Wanna go Double Dutch?
9th December 2003
I'm lazy, well actually tired after being away all day.
So I'll copoy paste this from the *hic* Pub:
Though I can already say that "who won the debate" (or who was the better of the two if you wish) doesn't have to mean one supports that candidate. I might end up deciding that Mc Cain won the debate due to better use of language, points, catching the other person of guard etc. but that doesn't have to mean he would be the best president. Obviuously the whole story can be turned around and applied to Obama aswell.
Mc Cains use of the word liberal is confusing to me, he said "Obama has the most liberal voting record as a senator" which to me as a European would mean he voted the most against goverment influence and regulation while McCains point is exactly the opposite...
On foreign policies they didn't debated about israel as much as I would hope either. It was only briefly touched. A debate on how they few the events around Palestina and Isreal and how to deal with it would be interesting. As we all know, that area is a major factor in the justification of many muslim extremists who feel oppressed by the west (American crusaders). Their view on how to make peace or stabalize the region would have been highly interesting.
As for the debate, both canidates did well and it seemed like a draw to me. Though at the end McCain was a bit better since he once again made clear that he doesn't want the Iraq war to have been in vain for the soldiers (and citizens I must hope) that died there. (or got injured I assume or lost people dear to them). Barack did not, atleast not as clearly. Ofcourse he shares these views but he could have made it more clear by repeating himself so it would stuck better. Overall their wasn't a lot of difference between the goals of both men, only to some extend about the way to achief this (take Iraq were both want to keep the troops safe and get them out when this is possible, one wants to do this via a schdule of redrawl to sent out a message "look we aren't invading/conquerin your lands we are planning to get out" and the other wants to achief the same by redrawing without mentioning a general timeline "we'll leave but you will see when we do". I think the largest disagreement (or atleast one disagreement that I remeber) was about talking with certain nations with or without preconditions or on or not on a presidential level. I agree with Obama here. There is no harm in talking with any nation without precondition on any level. Ofcourse you start at the lower levels but you may need to talk on a presidential level. And if you do you can't in advance set preconditions. You can repeat your views during the talk and make your conditions clear while you talk. The method of "I won't talk with you unless you have done this or that" is kinda silly. Not talking to a nation doesn't gets them to somehow magically comply... talking to them and making clear you desire or demand certain action to be taken could. And I fail to see how this would make you look like a fool or a loser as McCain basically said. Talking with Iran on a presidential level if need be isn't giving in to them. It only would be if you talk with them and don't do anything with whatever result comes out. But that would just be as foolish as not talking at all and hoping that a nation complies. And diplomacy gains you a lot of international support. You can defend your and tell the world "look, we ask them to change their ways, made clear what the consequences could be if they would not change their ways and they will not comply, we need to take action". Rather then "Hihaw, I'm a Taxen gunman an I'm moving in whether you like it or not! PS: Sent me troops!".
Source and for more: http://forums.filefront.com/pub/379621-first-presidential-debate.html
stylie;4603921He also needs to be more forceful, rude in fact. When McCain was not allowing him to speak. Is it wrong to think that Obama may have even been embarrassed a bit? Backed into the corner? Kind of seemed that way.
Some more action (read: some more strong debate on totally different views on some items would be nice. But them starting to raise voices (or even shouting) would kill the quality of the debate for me. A good debate is were both candidates respect eachother and speak in turns. I don't want them to act (fight) like cocks in a cockfight.
I am also [130.Pz]Gef.Elche Pz
6th December 2005
Stylie, I didn't see it so I can't comment. But Biden and Palin should be funny, if the bitch even shows.
11th February 2005
I can't vote, so I'm not sure if I can be bothered to watch it entirely... but Biden and Palin, should be funny indeed. I actually feel a bit sorry for poor Sarah already :(
Yeah, I do think Palin will go down in flames. All good points so far. But to speak to the one from the "pub" regarding the bit about talking to ahmadinejad (funny hearing McCain mispronounce that one!). That was a clear example of OB not pouncing on McCain. JM took a huge liberty there. OB had just got done saying that to sit there and listen to Mahmoud go on about Israel would be ridiculous, then JM took the comment as an ascertation that he WOULD do that if OB sat with him and OB let it go unchecked. That was dangerous territory for JM and Obama let it go. I think he could have stuck a dagger in there if he wanted too. Donutz, You are right, I wouldnt want to hear them get rude, bad term. But OB cannot let McCain talk over him while muttering... "but, no, um, excuse me" He needs to take it back. Moose: YouTube - First 2008 Presidential Debate (Full Video) would like your take on it anyway. Stefan, no pandora's box here. Im not emotionally invested in this one. Rather, I almost feel like an outsider and won't be represented in this one anyway. It could come down, for me, to be a single issue. Something I want to see accomplished. Either the end of earmarks or a break from Republicans.
Wanna go Double Dutch?
9th December 2003
stylie;4604258Yeah, I do think Palin will go down in flames. All good points so far. But to speak to the one from the "pub" regarding
I"m a "the one" now? THE ONE perhaps but not "the one'. :(
LOL! I meant the one as in the "comment" from the pub!!!