Just to prove my point to Mudra -1 reply

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sheikyerbouti

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11th April 2008

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#1 9 years ago
sheikyerbouti

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11th April 2008

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#2 9 years ago

Even wikipedia backs me up and I hate using them as a reference. Ordnance QF 6 pounder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Seriously Mudra, throw out whatever book told you otherwise as the 6 pounder gun was issued, and also employed the High Explosive shell. 180px-57mm_Gun_M1_-_Saint-Malon_Bretagne.jpg57 mm Gun M1 firing at German bunker near Saint-Malo, Brittany




Von Mudra

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25th September 2004

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#3 9 years ago

"Unfortunately only AT was standard issue to the Americans. The Yanks were thus denied a capable, direct fire anti-personnel weapon."

So basically, in normandy, the brits had learned their lesson in using HE shells with it, but the americans still didn't get it.




Guest

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#4 9 years ago

Silly question but where is this argument coming from? I seem to have missed the memo...




sheikyerbouti

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#5 9 years ago

not an argument, not my intention at least I just can't sem to post things on the other forums so I resorted to using the Off topic section here. In a nutshell, VonMudra is dismissive of the fact that the 6 pounder AT gun in Commonwealth infantry companies was regularily issued with a high explosive shell. I would appreciate such a reflection in-game as it would add to the game play of the mod. Besides, it is historically relevant, which follows the rules of the mod. A couple of snips here and there of code are all that's needed... and I posted the American pic because it's pretty nice. P.S., you conveniently overlooked the better resource VM HE- 396,000 1,865,000 286,000 172,000 (years of 1942 1943 1944 and 1945 respectively, Production of High Explosive shells on an annual basis)

Sources - 6pdr Handbook, Cromwell Handbook, AVIA 46 187, WO 185/178, DEFE 15 180



stylie

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13th April 2005

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#6 9 years ago

I expect alot of these: o_0 and throw in a couple of these: and for good measure maybe a few \___\ All of which I have no clue about their meanings...




jumjum

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#7 9 years ago

Okay is the argument over whether the Amis used the very same weapon as manufactured and issued to the Brits? Because the 6-pounder is, IIRC, a 57mm gun. But I was under the impression the Brit 6-pounder and the American 57mm were as different as a pistol that fires a .38 Special from one which fires a 9mm, even though both are effectively the same caliber.




Von Mudra

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#8 9 years ago

Production doesn't matter. You can produce 50,000 tanks, but if they sit in storage, they don't matter a bit.

And I have stated now on these forums and FH, that yeah, the brits used HE in Normandy, but not africa, with the 6lber. And, as your sources show, the amis almost never got the HE shells

@Jummy, nope, it was the exact same gun.




sheikyerbouti

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#9 9 years ago

@ Jummy, It wasn't exactly the same gun as the Americans had better industrial tools which allowed them to make the M1 in the originally designed calibre which of greater length than the initially fielded mkI. Ok @ Mudra, The earliest references I have found for 6 pounder High Explosive shells being used is by the North Irish Horse during the Battle for Longstop Hill, which started 22 Dec. 1942 with the NIH being commited to action around Feb. 1943. The Battle for "Longstop Hill" Page Two Page Two I wasn't starting a pissing match, since the Brits get no portee weapons, I find that FH2 has a lack of direct fire High explosive available for the British side.




emonkies

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#10 9 years ago

The US 57mm was a license copy of the Brit 6lbr. US companies were already producing the 6lbr as part of the Lend Lease program so when US attempts to develop a replacement for the inadequate 37mm flopped the US was left without a adequate AT gun.

The Brit 6lbr was adopted with very slight modifications as the 57mm Anti tank gun M1. IIRC US had a different breech block or something.

US and Brit ammo was interchangeable. The US adopted the 57mm M-1 sometime early in 1943. First TOE listing is in May 1943.

The US had not planned to adopt the 57mm M-1 so production was never ramped up for different ammo types. As such the US only officially issued AP ammo.

The Brits did develop a HE round but it was hard to get til after Normandy. After Normandy HE ammo was readily available. A canister round was also developed but was not common til very late in the war.

Ironically it seems for awhile the Brits only had HE rounds and the US only had AP rounds

Naturally, US and Brit troops were able to "acquire" HE or AP rounds from friendly troops through the usual channels.

The US M1 57mm was the standard AT gun in Italy and was more common than the M3 76mm AT gun even till end of the war.

Test firings on knocked out Panthers showed that the Panther could be penetrated at all angles except upper hull front and turret glacis. All hits to hull and turret sides and rear penetrated.

Addendum: Due to a lack of HE ammo and a plethora of US 75mm HE and AP ammo the Brits bored out a number of their 6lbrs and rechambered them to fire the US ammo thus creating the ROQF 75mm. This gun was mostly used in tanks. The 75mm HE was also preferred as it was considerably more powerful than the 6lbr HE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_75_mm




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