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[130.Pz]W.Fuchs

Requiescat in Pace

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20th March 2008

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#61 11 years ago
jumjum;4741595Rommel was one of those cautious officers who took no part because he wanted to have some insurance in case the plot failed.

Rommel did not agreed with the plot himself. In 1944 he was getting desperate though, in his opinion Hitler should go back to politics and leave the tactical warfare to his generals. He even got a fight about that with Hitler. The reason he did not agreed with the plot was that in his opinion killing Hitler would make him a martyr. But after the period his car got strafed and he was ill and weak he did spoke openly about that the war was lost and Hitler would only bring the people deeper down. That made his name come in connection with Unternehmung Valkyrie. When Hitler heard his name as part of the complot he got another one of his rages but Hitler always was a fan off Rommel so he did gave him a choice, suicide with a state funeral and no harm to family or a trial followed by execution. Thats the last choice he made.




jumjum

Write heavy; write hard.

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11th April 2005

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#62 11 years ago

Stray03;4741602Fat lot of good that did for him, they still had him kill himself because they believed him to have taken part in it (They gave him the choice between suicide or a trial that would get him hung/hanged.)...[/quote] Rommel was involved enough to be guilty in a trial in any court, even an honest one. He had several discussions with some of the principles, knew there was to be a coup attempt, and had agreed to serve as the head of the Army under the new regime. But he wouldn't get his hands dirty and lend his prestige to the actual effort of persuading Germany's armed forces that the moment had come to join and throw off the Nazis.

Just think what it might have meant if Rommel had been active and had personally appealed to many of the Army, corps and division commanders who were sick of Hitler, either before the bomb blast or immediately afterwards in a radio broadcast. Would someone of the stature of a von Rundstedt have joined then? (Although IIRC von R was aware of at least the possibility of an active plot and might even have turned down an offer of a role in a post-Nazi gov't.)

The stand-backers claimed their oaths and personal honor wouldn't allow them to actively overthrow their government, even a tyranny - yet by that standard, the same personal honor would have required them to alert the Gestapo to what the plotters were doing. They just wanted to have enough wiggle room to be okay with whoever the winners were. That's understandable and a very human response to the dangers the coup presented - but it's not honorable or brave, and I can't grant Rommel any kind of hero status whatsoever.

[quote=Moose12;4741665]....this book talks in depth about various conspiracies and they all were wishy-washy which lead to a lot of their downfalls...

That's an excellent point. None of the conspiracies had the balls-to-the-wall, all-in commitment that, say, the White Rose had. That's because all the military plots grew out of a feeling of necessity on the part of the involved officers and politicians; they were not based on principles of liberty and a hatred of tyranny like that of the White Rose group. I'm confident all the Valkyrie plotters and the members of the other plots (maybe not the failed cognac-bottle bomb plotters) would have been quite satisfied with Hitler if he had won the war, regardless of whether he murdered tens of millions of Jews, Slavs, Poles and Russians.




jumjum

Write heavy; write hard.

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11th April 2005

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#63 11 years ago
Moose12;4741665....this book talks in depth about various conspiracies and they all were wishy-washy which lead to a lot of their downfalls...

That's an excellent point. None of the conspiracies had the balls-to-the-wall, all-in commitment that, say, the White Rose had. That's because all the military plots grew out of a feeling of necessity on the part of the involved officers and politicians; they were not based on principles of liberty and a hatred of tyranny like that of the White Rose group. I'm confident all the Valkyrie plotters and the other plot members (maybe not the failed cognac-bottle bomb plotters) would have been quite satisfied with Hitler if he had won the war, regardless of whether he murdered tens of millions of Jews, Slavs, Poles and Russians.




Moose12

I am also [130.Pz]Gef.Elche Pz

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6th December 2005

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#64 11 years ago

Yeah it's funny, because stauffenberg and his allies in the conspiracy weren't looking to surrender persay, they were hoping to oust hitler, in order to create their own government, then sue for a peace, with out unconditional surrender. It wasn't about ending the war, it was just about ending it their way, not hitlers, if hitler had still been winning they would have been happy, these conspiracies really only took hold post 1943, when the war turned sour for the germans.




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I didn't make it!

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#65 11 years ago

Well, there were other conspirators before then.

This page states there were 17 attempts on Hitler's life.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/assassination_attempts.html

In addition, according to the book Battle of France 1940 by Adolphe Goutard, after the invasion of Poland some members of the German High Command were planning a military coup against Hitler to prevent further war. I don't have the book with me right now and I don't clearly remember why it wasn't carried out.

Almost all the attempts on Hitler's life came from the military, and at least four came from the staff of Field Marshal Gunther Von Kluge. Some of the most notable attempts besides Stauffenberg were a bomb attack in Munch in November 1939 which killed 8 people and missed Hitler by 8 minutes, and a bomb placed on board Hitler's aircraft in 1943 after a visit to Von Kluge's headquarters. The bomb failed to explode due to the cold at high altitude.




Moose12

I am also [130.Pz]Gef.Elche Pz

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6th December 2005

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#66 11 years ago

like 14 of those 17 were more planning stages, the bomb on the airplane was probably the closet behind valkyrie.




Flying Carpet Of Death

Because lemons are yellow.

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12th May 2007

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#67 11 years ago

Looks like a good movie, im definitely going to go see it.

some people might question it though, simply for the fact that it stars tom cruise :P