Play as MEC? your a terrorist. -1 reply

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Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#151 12 years ago

Yes, I think I have not explained it right.

I mean I know France and all those countries had economical interests in Iraq, exactly like all countries, included USA have economic interests in diferent parts of world and this conditionate their polithical acts.

BUT I say, at least in the case of France and Germany, I don't think this was the reason to be against ocupation, those countries had a better knolewdge of the area, a more acurate overview of the problems this ocupation was going to create, they didn't think this was a right step in the fight against Al Qaeda and they did trust in the UN reports and the chances to get again the acess for international inspections




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#152 12 years ago
LoboBUT I say, at least in the case of France and Germany, I don't think this was the reason to be against ocupation, those countries had a better knolewdge of the area, a more acurate overview of the problems this ocupation was going to create, they didn't think this was a right step in the fight against Al Qaeda and they did trust in the UN reports and the chances to get again the acess for international inspections

I think that you're underestimating a crucial aspect of French foreign policy of every administration in the 5th republic, and that's a contrarian streak to what is perceived as American overbearance. This is often mistaken for petulance by Americans, but a valid observation nonetheless.

I have absolutely no doubt that French and Russian economic interests drove those countries' opposition to the invasion as much as their governments' desires to assert themselves in the face of American determination, far more so than any sort of pragmatic desire to work out a rational, peaceful solution.

The US does not have a monopoly on cynical, self-serving realpolitik. In fact, most aspects of US foreign policy are a lot less worse than the alternative--a lot of people tend to forget that. What many of us are arguing against is the growing and worrying trend in American politics to draw comparisons with other, far worse systems as a means of justifying wrong actions.




Lobo

All your base are belong to FH

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27th April 2003

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#153 12 years ago
FuzzyBunnyI think that you're underestimating a crucial aspect of French foreign policy...

I disagree partially, in my opinion, the problem of USA to have sucess in the Middle East mess (and believe me this area is a damn complicated mess) is the lack of a competent intelligence expert in arabs and middle East polithic, european countries have more experience dealing with arabs, dudes really complicated to deal with.

I was in Bagdad some weeks before the war doing a reportage, there I met the chief of the Spain intelligence service, he had a false economic advisory whatever employment in the embassy, but he was really the chief of the spaniard spies. Well, he spoke arab perfectly, had hundreds kickass contacts in Iraq and all countries of the area in every government levels, journalists, members of non governmental organizations, mafia bosses, local popes, taxi-drivers, bla, bla, bla...a real freak. To give you a real overview of the importance of dudes like this one to move right in the middle east sharks-sea I tell you he was killed with 6 other spaniard spies one year later in a resistance attack (basically all our experienced spies in the area)...well, our army commanders were desperated, they were totally blind after this lost, no information at all about the problems our soldiers were meeting dialy, the good previous relation with the local pope, Muqtada Al Sader, a dangerous chiit extremist, each day worse (with the fantastic help of american commanders to finally screw it up totally when they took the control of the area, ugh). In fact luckily we retired our troops some time later, because Al Sader ordered a chiits riot, and more time in that area without eyes had meant the lost of hundreds soldiers.

Well, maybe I am wrong but I suspect the american spies even don't speak arab, what I want to say with this long speech is...if the frenchies say don't mess in middle east...believe man, don't do it




Primo_Itch

Useless

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25th May 2004

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#154 12 years ago

Europe has seen it share on wars. They know what its really about, they avoid it as they can, even if its not on their homeland.

USA has seen one or two wars on the sense of having it inside their houses. Its a younger country, that someday will find the wisdom of the old guys in Europe and stop doing war as they do today.

Thats what i hope for, at least.




Sgt.kar98

Back from the dead

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23rd November 2004

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#155 12 years ago

I did´t watched the video,but,is it about a game that they are thinking is making people become terrorists? So Counter Strike... I´m a terrorist... Can someone buy me a ticket to go to USA at the FBI HQ to I ask them to...?




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#156 12 years ago
LoboI disagree partially, in my opinion, the problem of USA to have sucess in the Middle East mess (and believe me this area is a damn complicated mess) is the lack of a competent intelligence expert in arabs and middle East polithic, european countries have more experience dealing with arabs, dudes really complicated to deal with.

I think the Americans have plenty of competent, dedicated intelligence specialists who speak Arabic or any other language under the sun.

I also believe that very often, they are not listened to.

Plus, even if it's the case, bad intelligence and cynical motives are not mutually exclusive.

And @primo_itch, yes, the Europeans have seen plenty of wars, which is why I'd expect that by now they'd be good at it and not let f***-ups like the Balkans happen in their own back yard.




StrangerThanFiction

I live on Gaming Forums

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6th October 2003

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#157 12 years ago
FuzzyBunnyThe US does not have a monopoly on cynical, self-serving realpolitik. In fact, most aspects of US foreign policy are a lot less worse than the alternative--a lot of people tend to forget that. What many of us are arguing against is the growing and worrying trend in American politics to draw comparisons with other, far worse systems as a means of justifying wrong actions.

Actually if I thought the US was engaging in cynical, self-serving realpolitik, I would feel a lot better. The US overthrew the Iraqi government, which was relatively stable and secular, if extremely nasty, and exchanged it for a "democracy" that cannot even secure its own capitol, and allowed the country to be overrun by private militias, many run by religious extremists, if not actually allied with Al Quaeda. Meanwhile, while the US tied up most of our ground forces and increased its level of debt to unprecedented levels, Bin Laden has escaped, the Taliban is staging a comeback, Iran may be on the verge of getting nukes, North Korea may be about to test a missile that can reach the West Coast of the U.S. Seems more like surrealpolitic.




{9thInf}QbanRev*E*

Hero

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26th October 2005

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#158 12 years ago

i 100% agree with those old dudes, i was playin bf2, and then im like OMGZ JIHAD FTW!!!!! and i blew myself up, along with 200 of my citezens, and 1 of the enemy! SCORE I ROCK WHOOO!!!!




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#159 12 years ago
StrangerThanFictionActually if I thought the US was engaging in cynical, self-serving realpolitik, I would feel a lot better. The US overthrew the Iraqi government, which was relatively stable and secular, if extremely nasty, and exchanged it for a "democracy" that cannot even secure its own capitol, and allowed the country to be overrun by private militias, many run by religious extremists, if not actually allied with Al Quaeda.

Yeah well we seem to be yo-yoing between fanatical the LAWD TOLD ME TO FREE THE WORLD, HALLELUJA and handing out freebies to whatever corporation-du-jour's board our glorious VP is on.

You're right, I can't put my finger on it, but "working in the best interests of the U.S. taxpayers" or "making any sense whatsoever" don't really seem to factor into it