Additional maps -1 reply

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Eat Uranium

Wyrd bið ful ãræd

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12th July 2008

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#41 10 years ago

Because none of the maps in the mappacks have sp support (as far as I know), the only way to play them is online. Now some people (including me) will only download maps if they support sp. This leads to fewer downloads of the maps. Being able to play them offline means you can get a feel for the maps and might make more people think: 'right, I want to try this against real people'. I reckon you would see more downloads if even only one ore two of the maps was navmeshed. However you are right, to get them regularly played they would have to be included in the actual mod build as community maps.




[Waw]Stubbfan

GF makes me horny

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2nd April 2008

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#42 10 years ago
Eat Uranium;4675195Because none of the maps in the mappacks have sp support (as far as I know), the only way to play them is online. Now some people (including me) will only download maps if they support sp. This leads to fewer downloads of the maps. Being able to play them offline means you can get a feel for the maps and might make more people think: 'right, I want to try this against real people'. I reckon you would see more downloads if even only one ore two of the maps was navmeshed. However you are right, to get them regularly played they would have to be included in the actual mod build as community maps.

You're right about that of course. These maps where made for the tournament battles, so they needed no SP support. We did however have a guy who started doing SP support for it. Hopefully he will get some work done.




M00SE

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10th August 2008

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#43 10 years ago
Eat Uranium;4675195Because none of the maps in the mappacks have sp support (as far as I know), the only way to play them is online. Now some people (including me) will only download maps if they support sp. This leads to fewer downloads of the maps. Being able to play them offline means you can get a feel for the maps and might make more people think: 'right, I want to try this against real people'. I reckon you would see more downloads if even only one ore two of the maps was navmeshed. However you are right, to get them regularly played they would have to be included in the actual mod build as community maps.[/quote] I think you and others who will only download a map when there is a SP option will be in the minority bracket number wise. I know me personally would not waste precious time playing SP with bunch of stupid bots, its a complete waste of a good game IMO. As for doing SP to get the feel of a new map, again I wouldn`t waste my time when there is real people playing online. [quote=Natty Wallo]When the mod has 25-30+ maps in the installer, you will be able to play it without feeling "bored" or play the same map twice in one day (maybe not even in one week unless you play 3 or more hours each day, simple math) etc... like FH1 0.6 or so... it will take a little while to reach that amount, but not too long.. after 2.15, normandy and a few patches, FH2 will have reached that amount and everybody can play it for many years. Also there is a "peak" amount of statics, armies, weapons & soldiers, when that peak is reached, many mappers can provide maps which will get included, the release of America, Italy etc will open up lots of possibilites, so there is an exponential curve of material, the more material that is released, the faster the mod will grow big, really big... so that will solve it for you. The end.

If there does end up being 25 - 30 maps, it will take at least 2 years to get near to that mark if its only going to be official maps that get included. So approximatley 20 new maps are comming our way over the future months, ( who knows how long this will take) thats not going to take the edge of the allready well worn and played 13 we have now. I`m still going to to find it hard to play the old ones as much as I have done in the past. If there was a server with a healthy number of maps avalailable and one of the golden oldies appeared now and then it wouldn`t be so bad to play it again. If we are going to get a few maps here and there in dribs and drabs its not going to solve much at all, especially for the regular players whos numbers would be greater as we speak if this suggestion we are making gets some attention.

There`s another point I`d like to throw over. WaW and FHT have gone to the trouble of making new tournaments for FH2, they have put a lot of effort into it and some guys have patiently made maps for them to play on. These tournaments are helping and promoting the mod and also boosting the server numbers on certain days. How about showing them a little respect in return for their participation in FH and encourage them to keep making maps for it by making them available to all. I know the Devs want a certain standard to their maps, they have every right to do this but these mappers are getting kicked in the teeth and told that the maps are not good enough etc etc. Its hardly a rewarding experiance in my book.

I believe there is some independent mappers out there also so I include these guys into what I have said above.

Cheers all




H.Moleman Esq.

Cubix82

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28th November 2006

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#44 10 years ago
M00SE;4676189I know the Devs want a certain standard to their maps, they have every right to do this but these mappers are getting kicked in the teeth and told that the maps are not good enough etc etc.

IMO the standard of some of those tournament maps is equal to the official maps. It's bizarre... the devs have stated that progress is slow and they're short of staff, and then they ignore all of this first-rate content.

Player numbers are falling off sharply and the lack of maps is a big issue... before too long it'll down to 6 grogs arguing about the number of buttons on a Sahariana jacket while playing Bardia for the 7000th time.




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#45 10 years ago

Are these mappacks free available to the public or only for registered members of the tournaments? I would like to check them out and see if they can meet my quality standards :smokin:

The problem is probably the lack of a historical background!? So why do these tournament mappers not just make maps with historical backgrounds or at least make small battles nobody would have heard of, but which could have taken place in that way.




luftwaffe.be

The Internet ends at GF

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29th August 2005

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#46 10 years ago

I would be a good thing if the custom FH2 mappers should form a guild together, and then defend their common cause to the FH devs, so maybe a few custom ones could become officials. Not that all custom made maps sould be included tough : the guildmasters should first pick out the decent ones, send in a bunch of them to the FH devs, wich should discus wheiter some maps are worthy, and if so what changes should be made to those maps. Maybe a map would only have a succesrate of 1/50, it still is better then none at all. Cheers




Natty Wallo

FH2 LevelDesigner

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16th December 2005

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#47 10 years ago

Moose, that is true... (your last post).

Personally I made a FH2 map for FHT, called Thermopyles.

Let me tell you what it means to create a full level for a game like Battlefield 2.

First of all mapping for BF2 takes a very very long time. Not only because the Editor keeps crashing, you losr work etc, but there are alot of things to do to fill up a map with material. In Bf42 it was faster, partly because that game only had 1 detail texture for ground and also no Growth.

I worked somewhere between 120-150 hours on Thermopyles. it has roads, flagzones, a village, growth, textures etc...

But, If I were to take that map and "finalize" it, making it an official release, It would need an additional 150 hours in Editor. This is without the SP work, so add another 50hours there if someone took that job also.

There are just so many things that differ from a "map-pack" map and an official release map. I can basically give a list of the rough standards that a map needs:

-Terrain must be handmade, basically this means that every grid in Terrainmode must be touched by you, at least around the flagzones. I can easily spot terrain that is just left untouched, or roughly mapped. Ditches, Hillsides, Road edges, Cliffs, all need to be carefully tweaked using Size1 Strenth1 brush - this takes time. Not only for look, but for gameplay function. You need to know every little grid in important areas, can infantry pass there? can tank pass there? etc...

-Colormaps must at least show proof of artistic talent, even if you cant paint or don't work well with texture files, you need to spend many many hours at least around flagzones and roads and villages and farms painting colors that give life to the map, Editor is a very bad texturing tool but if you take time you can create quite ok colors with it. TPainted maps is a huge no-no, I can easily spot a Tpainted terrain and it hasnt a place in FH2. There is no guideline to texturing a FH2 map. Photoshop, Editor42, Terragen, etc etc there are so many ways to create them. This takes a hell of a long time to make nice, and I can agree that sometimes simple is better. It depends all on the next point.

-Detailmaps These you need to paint carefully around important areas, this takes time as Editor works slowly when editing Details. Id say 20% of my mapping time goes to tweaking detailTextures.

-Growth Autogenerated growth work quite OK, but there is a huge difference between hand-painted Growth and autogenerated, as long as the growth is clean and nice, its ok. Still you need to look at and tweak almost every single grid to avoid growth inside houses, on roads etc.. this takes time.

-Statics Here is the huge TimeConsumer in mapping.. Some maps have a few hundred statics, some empty houses and thats it. That's not FH and we all know that. Ofcourse FH2 dont set Sfakia and Sidi as "standard" as they have so much time put in by experience mappers its a too high standard to set, but they are good for reference. Some basic StaticRules:

  • Make the world come to life. This means build as people are living there, telephone poles, walls, fences, furniture, sandbags, wires. Most of it is boring as hell and takes forever, but when its done it looks like a real world. I dont mean put 5,000 little details just for the sake of it, but a map that hasn't got the "atmosphere" will just not make it.
  • Look from TopDown View. Make sure all angles around important areas have a set numbe of entry points. Always keep in mind that every single static should have some sort of GamePlay value. Cover, blockade, Pass etc.. You must be able to count all entrypoints into a flagzone, for example if you dont want attackers to be able to enter from East, you must block the eastern passage - in a natural way.
  • Look From SolderCamera. Make sure they can look over walls or blockades, look from all angles. Run in soldierMode make sure you can run on those places you want to run, and be blocked on those places where they shouldn't be able to pass

Remember that you design the map. You decide where things should happen. You need to build the map with a clear goal in your head how the map should play. If you "freestyle" map just for fun, it will show and the map will fail

-GamePlay this also takes countless hours of testing and tweaking.. can AT guns hit the tanks, can MGs aim where they should etc etc.. Spawnpoints must be moved into perfect spots, Capzones must be perfect etc.

As you can see... making a map is a crazy amount of work, and its not easy to just add a map into a mod...




M00SE

ooOoooOOoOoOoooOOOoo

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10th August 2008

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#48 10 years ago
Natty Wallo;4678887 Personally I made a FH2 map for FHT, called Thermopyles. Let me tell you what it means to create a full level for a game like Battlefield 2. First of all mapping for BF2 takes a very very long time. Not only because the Editor keeps crashing, you losr work etc, but there are alot of things to do to fill up a map with material. In Bf42 it was faster, partly because that game only had 1 detail texture for ground and also no Growth. I worked somewhere between 120-150 hours on Thermopyles. it has roads, flagzones, a village, growth, textures etc................. .

Last night I thought to myself maybe I should download the editor and see if I can start to learn its workings, after reading through the tutorials though I decided against it. Reason being is my computer skills are zero and I`m really crap when it comes to figuring out stuff like this. Having just read Natty post above I`m glad I didn`t bother and went to bed instead.:lol: If mapping is as hard work as described and the situation we have at the moment concerning the lack of them, I would say at the present moment in time FH2 Mod is firmly cruising on the " Highway To Nowhere" !! Laters all *walks away shaking his head*




Natty Wallo

FH2 LevelDesigner

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16th December 2005

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#49 10 years ago

No its not, its growing stronger by the second. Because there are people who work their asses of creating this mod. FH2 has standards, the first criteria to create a map is to not give up and go to bed... no offense mooose... cheers




M00SE

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10th August 2008

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#50 10 years ago
Natty Wallo;4679144No its not, its growing stronger by the second. Because there are people who work their asses of creating this mod. FH2 has standards, the first criteria to create a map is to not give up and go to bed... no offense mooose... cheers

No offense took, but I did say its my level of tech/PC knowledge that is to blame fo not d/ling the editor, if I haven`t got it I haven`t got it, simple as that! As for saying the mod is growing stronger second by second is a little bit of a dream in reality. Nothing has happened for several months. I call that stagnation. How has it grown stronger at all ? I don`t see any evidence myself. Cheers