Airplane improvement suggestions -1 reply

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Kubador

First in Hell

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19th November 2007

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#21 12 years ago
'[79th Le_Chat;4191529']:( MMMM improving aviation on FH quite a difficult subject, and god knows how I'd be happy to see some progress there. Since the release, my team and I we've been playing extensively. I've designed a train map to test all materials, with destroyable targets aso aso ... I've looked at the coding and here are some ideas reg. aviation (but not only). Indeed, like many I tend to struggle with the feeling provided by flying in BF²/FH² why ? 1> the map size First since some of you mentionned IL2 (one can also mention Lock-On), please realize that we are playing in a totally different league here. IL2 (or LO) maps are minimum 100km² up to 10000km². In reality (and in IL2) flight from airfield to target took several minutes (hours). Target where generally visible from approx 10 to 15 km distance. The attack cone to target had generally a 5km radius, from altitude up to 5000m. At 500km/h this means an approch to target of approx. 20 seconds, enough to identify, aim, shoot. AA were leathal but would be really efficient only in the last 1500m. R-R combat would start with an identification of ennemy formation at 2-4 km distance. 2> In BF² FH² In FH² maps are generally 4km² (to max. 16km² if I'm not mistaken). If planes are modded based on real data with a willingness of realism, flying at 500km/h, they will cross a map in 13 seconds. Impossible for instance to have a squadron formation with a combat spacing of 500m If AA efficiency are also designed based on real data, they can basically shoot any plane on any position in the map (same valid for tanks actually who use to shoot at range exeeding 1km) So the only solution to try to give some sort of equilibrium, is to play on visibility (i.e. fog distance). Typically 600-800m on FH² maps. Unfortunatly for the aviator this represent a 5 second visibility ... impossible to plan a decent R-R or R-Ground attack. 3> My conclusions on this facts : - Weapon with realistic distance efficiency and dispersion means that the first player that sees his ennemy (and shoot properly) will win the duel. - If we increase visibility (fog dist.) AA become too efficient and plane cannot make surprise attack - If we decrease visibility, planes have a mear 2-3 seconds visibility. Not enough to identify a target, adjust the attack run and shoot. - Changing the FOV a per your suggestion, will improve peripheral visibility, but will get you shot down by an AA you could even not see. (I've tested it on my FH²-mini_trainmod). So what can be done : Given the map size limitation, aviation behavior can only be reproduced by changing aviation scale, that is by slowing down planes by a factor 5 to 10 !!! But if you do only this ... you get the problem of the FH² Stuka, you get shot by AA like a sitting duck. So AA range need also to be reduced in the same proportion, with an increased dispertion. Is it just the planes ? Unfortunatly this facts are also valid for tanks, or even inf. As long as speed, weapon range are coded based on real data you get the problem of : U see 1st = U win U spend your time playing , shooting at object as big as a couple of pixels. In summary : You cannot realistically mod a war with 64 players on a 4km² map. Should you adapt range, dispertion, speed ... then you could compensate partially for the above phenomenon by artificially enlarging the maps ... pretty tough decision, for guys who did a fantastic job in collecting a immense documentation to make the mod as precise as possible. (Not to mention those that will inevitably complain that they have to run or fly for 2mn before being able to fire a shot :uhm: Miaou ;)

Wow, that's what I call a solid research! The conclusian I made after reading this:

The devs made an excellent combination of realism and gameplay and sqeezed out the best they could from BF2 engine:bows:. And still there are people who won't practice enough to be better pilots but whine, naysay and fix this'n'that because I can't get my killz.




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#22 12 years ago

I'm sure you'd like it if it was done like the jets and helicopters in BF2, you're basically invincible, the AA is virtually useless and everyone else on the server is there only so you have something to shoot at. :p In my time playing, I've seen many good pilots helping their team a lot on the way to victory, not by having "M4d H4xx0r k1llz" but by destroying Flak 18s and PaKs and such. I've also tried flying a couple of times and I sucked immensely at it, but instead of complaining, i leave the flying to the good pilots and grab a tank (stick to what you're good at). So in conclusion, the planes don't need improvement, you do. ;)




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#23 12 years ago

I think they don't need to change anything... Flying planes is working really fine for me now... I had a steep learning curve but I can make suprice attacks, kill tanks and other shit. :cool: Yesterday i got a round on the siege of tobruk (Hslan-server)... Me and my squad mate were flying the stuka and we literally owned the british team because of stuka bombing runs... Awesome I must tell you, i had 4 deaths and 28 kills in it. They need to stay the way they are! Plz




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#24 12 years ago

Well, i dont have any big change suggestions for the Planes, but the Spitfire's aiming reticicle seems to be "obstructed" by the engine/prop of the plane, and this makes leading to a target lot more difficult compared to the Hurricane MK2C wich has lot more space between the aiming reticicle and the engine (Cant recall correct terms)

So i'd like a slight alteration for the Spitfire, by "raising" the aiming reticicle so it isnt so much obstructed as it is now.

PS: I know it was really close line between the reticicle and the engine but could we slightly alter it, even though it is against it's realistic counterpart.




[79th] Le_Chat

Miaou to all of you ;)

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4th March 2005

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#25 12 years ago
roofthooft_sven;4192476I think they don't need to change anything... Flying planes is working really fine for me now... I had a steep learning curve but I can make suprice attacks, kill tanks and other shit. :cool: Yesterday i got a round on the siege of tobruk (Hslan-server)... Me and my squad mate were flying the stuka and we literally owned the british team because of stuka bombing runs... Awesome I must tell you, i had 4 deaths and 28 kills in it. They need to stay the way they are! Plz

I do not think the question is whether the plane can be efficient, whether some pilot can use them, aso aso ... The question is : what can we make to get FH² more interesting for those who like sim-flying. Being myself a pilot IRL, I cannot in anyway find anything common between BF and the feeling you get up-there. Contrary to good sim like IL2,Lock-On, Condor. No interest in flying in squadron (almost impossible) , no possibility to build a real air-ground strike , (timing, coordination, via several strike vectors), no possibility even to reproduce basic aerodynamic behavior (stall, glide, skid approach aso aso). Just as an example ... being able to move backward, when gas between 0 and 50% :rofl: Miaou :)




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#26 12 years ago

Ow in that case (your case) I can understand that you want to have changements... But in my case, someone who never flew a plane in RL, it doesn't really matter, as long that it is fun :smokin:




MasterOhh

Slightly cooler than a n00b

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5th July 2006

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#27 12 years ago

I like the way how the planes are done in FH2. Of course their behavior is far away from being realistic. Last time I checked, BF2 was still rated as an action shooter and not as a simulation.

What I do not like is the huge imbalance between the allied and axis planes. That might mirror the real circumstances of WWII, but gives me a real headache when I try to build a map with even odds for both sides.




[79th] Le_Chat

Miaou to all of you ;)

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4th March 2005

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#28 12 years ago

Well you can change the coding of any object to suites the needs of your map. What you have to do is 1> to modify the object in the way you want 2> pack it in a "MyMapsObjects.zip" file (with the complete path from the object directory (i.e. \vehicles\air\gb\SpitfireMKVb for the spit). 3> in the map "init.con" add the lines "run clientsarchives.con and run serverarchives.con" 4> copy the FH² "clientsarchives.con" and "serverarchives.con" in your map directory 5> add in this both files "fileManager.mountArchive levels/MyMaps/MyMapsObjects.zip Objects"

Et voilà ... when loading your map, the init.con, will re-launch the mounting of all object zip file in the object directory, and then your modified plane will overrides the original one.

Miaou ;)




[WOLF] Ionizer

Do the Squirrel Dance!

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19th March 2007

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#29 12 years ago

'[79th Le_Chat;4193200']Well you can change the coding of any object to suites the needs of your map. What you have to do is 1> to modify the object in the way you want 2> pack it in a "MyMapsObjects.zip" file (with the complete path from the object directory (i.e. \vehicles\air\gb\SpitfireMKVb for the spit). 3> in the map "init.con" add the lines "run clientsarchives.con and run serverarchives.con" 4> copy the FH² "clientsarchives.con" and "serverarchives.con" in your map directory 5> add in this both files "fileManager.mountArchive levels/MyMaps/MyMapsObjects.zip Objects"

Et voilà ... when loading your map, the init.con, will re-launch the mounting of all object zip file in the object directory, and then your modified plane will overrides the original one.

Miaou ;)

Now we'll be seeing invincible Panzer 2's firing infinite 75 mm Sherman rounds through the autocannon. Thanks Le Chat...

Just kidding, but be wary of revealing that kinda stuff. We wouldn't want servers/mapmakers exploiting this.




turnpipe

Pilot and Sniper damit.

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21st January 2008

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#30 12 years ago
'[WOLF Ionizer;4193213']Now we'll be seeing invincible Panzer 2's firing infinite 75 mm Sherman rounds through the autocannon. Thanks Le Chat... Just kidding, but be wary of revealing that kinda stuff. We wouldn't want servers/mapmakers exploiting this.

Servers and map makers can make any kind of mini mod they desire.