bazooka- must be fixed -1 reply

Please wait...

[21Pz]Stauffenberg

the Wishmaster

50 XP

29th April 2005

0 Uploads

2,040 Posts

0 Threads

#1 13 years ago

good day, fh freaks i found something that really needs some fix: the bazooka it is way too strong. i have some examples but first of all let me explain how it works here some pics and the text (from german translated to english with google) hohlsprengkopf1.jpg A shaped-charge blowing up head consists of a hollow cone(geschossspitze) filled with explosive(sprengmittel). The point is covered with a hollow cap(hohle kappe), which serves for the protection of the explosive and this with a detonation also ignites. hohlsprengkopf2.jpg In the case of the impact on the goal the explosive is ignited and the explosion is bundled by the funnel form to a resulting strength, which shows toward armoring which can be pierced. The vectorial addition of the individual explosive yields in the shaped-charge cone leads thus to one on one point concentrated energy beam from explosion gases. With a speed of approximately 8,000 m/s and/or a pressure of more than 10 million kg/cm² this projectile shoots at armoring. (resultierende kraft=resulting strenght; explosionsrichtung= direction of impact) hohlsprengkopf3.jpg The metal is melted immediately by the enormous heat by over 8.000° Celsius or evaporated. The high kinetic energy of the projectile accelerated now also these particles and it developes a plasma beam, which causes further damages. This effect can be still strengthened by a metal bar attached in the Hohlladungsgsprengkopf. (panzerplatte= armor) ok now thats how it works. but as you can see above, this is how a panzerfaust works. bazooka is exactly the same. But in fh it is too strong: the pz4 h has been uparmored with extra armor (Schürzen) so that the bazooka makes the hole into the extra armor, which is like 10-20 cm away from the tanks side wall, so the bazooka bullet may nearly never penetrate a panzer 4h or a panzer 3M (with schürzen) if he gets hit on the schürzen. Remember: the Schürzen where thin steel plates, sometimes they didnt have enough steel, then they used chains! They were never thought to be against any massive tank bullet, but against bazookas and other bullets or weapons using this type (piat,panzerfaust,panzerschreck) So the result from this is, that you should never be able to destroy a panzer 4h with a bazooka if hit on the schürzen! the other thing that shows me that it is too strong: i was in a jagdpanther and i catched a shot from a bazooka right on the front armor at the height of the turret. And it took the jagdpanther HALF of its health! i think a jagdpanther has something like 20 cm front armor, maybe bit less, but still massive, but then the angular!I think it might be like 45 degrees maybe more maybe less. A real bazooka would simply bounce of. So i think the bazooka is way to strong in some ways, so please get that fixed for 0.7, it takes alot of fun for anyone driving a tank [sry for all mistakes, im not from uk]




Arisaka

Staff suffers from PCD

50 XP

16th August 2004

0 Uploads

1,495 Posts

0 Threads

#2 13 years ago

the skirts are coding in progress. the bazooka has a theoretical penetration of 100mm. what's the front armor of the jagdpanther again? around 80mm i think (and sloped of course, but that's not taken into consideration when evaluating penetration or no penetration AFAIK).

actually - in many cases the shaped charges are not strong enough....

what would be nice for the bazooka is a very high tendency to fail when not hitting perpendicular to the target, and then get the second rocket/projectile (still doesn't burn outside the tube, so please remove the trail) that has a rounded front with improved success rate against sloped armor (a bit like faustpatrone vs pzfaust 30)

i've never been able to take out a tiger by hitting the lower hull with the PIAT. armor there is 60mm, and the PIAT has a penetration of 75mm. i don't think the bazooka kills there either, but i might be wrong.




Safe-Keeper

Aw, c'mon Cyan, it's quality!

50 XP

28th September 2004

0 Uploads

1,225 Posts

0 Threads

#3 13 years ago

Does anyone remember the Battlefield 2 movie where the Hummvee was glanced by a rocket that ricocheted off of it? That'd be interesting to have in Forgotten Hope 2. Anyways, I don't really mind the bazooka/panzerfaust strenght. But then again, I haven't played FH too much anyhow.




CrimeScene

The forums staffers think I'm Cool

50 XP

15th March 2005

0 Uploads

191 Posts

0 Threads

#4 13 years ago

I think the way they are now works pretty good,I would lke to see the range fixed though way to short on them but then again this is not a realism mod. CrimeScene




Skipster

I live on Gaming Forums

50 XP

29th July 2004

0 Uploads

1,068 Posts

0 Threads

#5 13 years ago
Arisakathe skirts are coding in progress. the bazooka has a theoretical penetration of 100mm. what's the front armor of the jagdpanther again? around 80mm i think (and sloped of course, but that's not taken into consideration when evaluating penetration or no penetration AFAIK).

I was under the impression that sloped armor was given a greater effective thickness ( I don't know the exact formula, but IIRC, the Panther for example ends up with an effective armor thickness of 100+mm compared to it's actual 80mm))




Arisaka

Staff suffers from PCD

50 XP

16th August 2004

0 Uploads

1,495 Posts

0 Threads

#6 13 years ago
SkipsterI was under the impression that sloped armor was given a greater effective thickness ( I don't know the exact formula, but IIRC, the Panther for example ends up with an effective armor thickness of 100+mm compared to it's actual 80mm))

cosine to the impact angle, IIRC. i believe it's taken into account when measuring the damage done, not when evaluating whether or not the projectile penetrates, due to difficulties with the code. but i ignored that, as the projectile might come at a downward angle, and have some normalizing. it was more a stating of that "it's possible", rather than "that's the way it should be at all times".

example: armor thickness: 100 mm penetration ability: 120 mm obvious kill @ 90 deg (i don't remember the coding in FH, it's something about X hitpoints per 5 mm more penetration or something like that.). Let's assume that it eats 100% of the hitpoints.

then, that plate is rotated 40 degrees armor thickness: 100mm virtual thickness: 130mm penetration: 120mm Assuming no normalization or other nifty things it would not penetrate, and thus 0% of all hitpoints would be lost.

however, ingame it's still 120 vs 100 = penetration damage done is 100% of the hitpoints times cos(40deg) = 77% of the hitpoints.

i haven't gotten confirmation about this from hartmann, but from ingame experience (and not tests in controlled environments, i must add) this is how it seems to be working. they might have given it cos^2(40) or something, i don't know..... devcomments? :confused:




Tas

Serious business brigade

50 XP

4th September 2004

0 Uploads

7,275 Posts

0 Threads

#7 13 years ago

Irrc the theoretical penetration of a bazooka is 100mm, this is what was written down and was told to the troops, in practise it was about 70mm. Of course, iirc, and no, i dont remembr the source.




Colonel fu

don't cross the magical line

50 XP

22nd February 2005

0 Uploads

264 Posts

0 Threads

#8 13 years ago

The firing range of the bazooka is why it is so good. In game no other AT weapon is even close. You dont even have to aim high. Trajectory is very flat. The faust range is nothing compared to it.




Neighbor Kid

Pro Sherman Tanker

50 XP

31st July 2004

0 Uploads

1,334 Posts

0 Threads

#9 13 years ago

the game (FH) already has glancing, if you mean galncing off and hit some thing else safe keeper then no FH does not have that ability yet, although that would be pretty cool to see.




Frederf

I take what n0e says way too seriously

50 XP

2nd March 2004

0 Uploads

2,156 Posts

0 Threads

#10 13 years ago

Panzershreck. The Cosine of the Angle * Max Penetration = Actual Penetration is a rather significant over-simplification of the fluid dynamics of plasma, the geometry of impact and the quantum chemistry of the target going on. But it seems to be a decent approximation. I think the bazooka works about right for the lighter armor, perhaps too damaging to heavier armor (e.g. since when did making two 60mm dents in 120mm armor = penetration?). Also about the rocket trail comment, I'd love to see a bigger plume at the tube, with backblast (damaging) and get rid of the hollywood smoke trail.