I saw a few balancing threads in the search feature, but most of them dealt with the weapons classes recieved, and not the classes themselves. So here are a few opinions/tweaks that I'd like to get some consideration on... SMG/Rifle Assault - These classes are good as they are, and not much needs to be changed. They are the standard by which other classes should be judged. Tweaks - Increase the running speed slightly. Anti-Tank - AT is crap. Even with the improved AT weapons coming in the next patch, AT is still fairly worthless. It’s mostly a walking target. Limited ammo and quickly depleted ammo boxes quickly come to mind. The enemy received unlimited spawning tanks, and yet your ammo box runs out of Piat ammo, so you’re sunk, and have to respawn to reload? WTF? Even then, AT is outgunned by every class in the game besides Pilot. The only exception is the K98/Panzerfaust combo, which was probably implemented due to the Faust’s single shot. The Panzerfaust would have really been a worthless class without the K98, but not by much more than the Bazooka, Piat, or Panzerschrek are. Any semi-skilled infantry can take out an AT armed with only a pistol. Why not just play an engineer, who can do assault, gets mines and packs/satchels for AT, and can repair? Tweaks – Like the K98/Faust combo, take away the pistol and give all AT an assault weapon, but with less reloads than the assault classes. A Piat with a Sten or No.4. A Bazooka with a Thompson or Springfield/Carbine, or for the Russians, PPSH or Mosin Nagant. Panzerschrek with an MP40 or K98. My first choice would be an AT/SMG combo, so long as the SMGs are the updated ones we’ll get in .62, so the AT won’t be able to go against enemy rifles, but will have a defense in close quarters.Second, I would take the current mines away from the Engineer, and give them to AT. Anti-tank mines for the anti-tank class. Makes sense. Lastly, I would decrease running speed to reflect the amount of equipment carried. This would prevent the AT from becoming too uber, as it will make it an easier, if still dangerous target for infantry, and not replace the regular assault classes. Support MG – I don’t like how the Devs are removing support MG classes from maps, especially for the Germans. Aside from a few bugs and exploits in the BF1942 engine, I don’t think there is much wrong with the MG class. Tweaks – Decrease running speed to reflect the heavy equipment carried. The decrease in speed will not affect the MGer’s ability to deliver death at distance, but it will cut down on the “on the go” tactic a lot of MGers seem to have, running through buildings spraying like the MG42 was an MP40. The decreased speed will allow the assault classes to outmaneuver them. Engineers – Engineer are too versatile, in my opinion. Assault class weapon, AT Mines, Packs/Satchels, and a repair ability? Too much for one class if you ask me. Tweaks – Lessen the amount of ammo an Engineer carries for his main weapon. No sense in an engineer being able to last just as long as an Assault for an extended duration in the field. Take away the AT Mines and give them to the AT Class. If Anti-Personnel mines are ever introduced, the Engineer should carry them instead. Leave Packs/Satchels, and the repair ability. Lastly, decrease running speed, because of equipment carried, and so the Engineer still isn’t a good substitute for the Assault class. Pilot – Works fine. Tweaks – None, but if anything, an ability to repair planes on the runway would be nice. Sniper – Works fine, but…. Tweaks – Snipers need a pistol. The rifle itself is almost useless at short range, unless you have a really good idea where the crosshair is, and the knife just isn’t always enough. Officer – Works fine. Tweaks – None.
The AT class discussion has been argued about for quite a long time, and the general consensus was that they will not get a main weapon as a sidearm. They might end up getting AT mines through.
And after what we did to the engineers, AT is by far the easiest way to kill a tank if your infantry.
Engineers no longer have mines (no more room in thier inventory. We might remove thier pistol, or give mines to the AT class) and satcheling a tank is much much harder then expacking it. They make a jack of all trades, but master of none. Thier rifle is good vs infantry, but they lack grenades like the assualt class, and thier satchels can kill tanks, but it takes a hell of alot of work and tactics (gotta chase down the tank, hope it stays still long enough, hope it doesnt see you, hope its something smaller then a panther, and hope your charge lands on top of it)
Thanks for the info, McGibs. I hope AT do get the mines, at least. Then I might be able to lure a tank into a trap when it tries to avoid my mines. And even though the Engineers don't get grenades, their Expacks serve the purpose of a grenade pretty well, and I imagine the satchel will work the same way. If you're good about not blowing yourself up, Expacks are better than grenades, and I worry Satchels will be too. I just hate Engineers being able to serve in the same capacity as Assault.
I like the Sniper without grenades and Pistol, being one and only killing with the knife sneakily and quietly gives me a thrill.
Well, I know we should probably wait till 0.62 is released before we start ranting about Class balances.
However I still think I might post my opinion.
Assault: -good standard infantrie killer. Rifle Grenades should be tweaked a litte, however the class still needs to stay attractive to play when compared to other rifle-classes.
Close Combat: -No need for a Close Combat class ! Just stick with the Officer concisting of Knife, Pistol, SMG and Binoculars. The lack of grenades also makes the Assault more attractive.
AT: -Should always be the best class for killing tanks. Unfortuanatly the Engineer often seems more attractive because hes more versatile. But McGibs has already said that will be changed. Besides tweaking the AT weapons range all ammo boxes should have unlimited refills. Ammo limit is just a frustrating feature since finding an ammo crate is hard enough, just to find its already empty. Also, depending on the length of the game, the enemy can have way more tanks...
Pilot: -Who could complain
Gunner: -the BAR, Type 99, DP-1928, Bren etc. are all fine. But the real MGs (Browing, MG 34/42 etc.) should only be tripod MGs in pickup kits.
Enginner: -Everybody agrees that this is by far the most flexible and versatile class in FH. Not only does the Enginner mostly have the Assault rifle, but its AT skills often outmatch those of the AT-Class, depending on the map. Additionaly the Engineer can repair any vehicle on the map.
Thats why I´d suggest: -splitting the Egineer Class into 2 different ones. -Driver: Knife, Pistol, Karabine/MP 38/Grease Gun or Ppsh-40, Binoculars, wrench. -Pioneer: Knife with defuse function, Shotgun/Karabine or similar, Mines, Satchels/TNT,
I only brought this up now because from all I heard of 0.62, I didn't hear about any class balancing aside from giving the Engineer a Satchel. And besides, I'd forget about half this stuff later, heh. Also, instead of a diffusing knife, why can't we make the the Alternate Fire button into a diffuse button. Since Expacks will no longer be in the game, you'll only have to diffuse mines, so as a minelayer, you'll have either lay mine, or pick up/diffuse mine. That will just negate the need for any crazy diffusing knife.
One thing alot of people seem to have trouble accepting (not pointing out anyone specifically, just combining alot of opinions I've heard) is that there are times when you simply cannot win. Assault class isn't supposed to knock out tanks, snipers and anti-tank troops aren't supposed to win in close combat, a single infantryman isn't supposed to hold off waves of armor, etc. I personally think it adds an incentive to work together with teammates when classes have big weaknesses.
Dee-JaýThats why I´d suggest: -splitting the Egineer Class into 2 different ones. -Driver: Knife, Pistol, Karabine/MP 38/Grease Gun or Ppsh-40, Binoculars, wrench. -Pioneer: Knife with defuse function, Shotgun/Karabine or similar, Mines, Satchels/TNT,
Great idea. If the new satchels are coded similarly to expacks it would be nice to be able to diffuse them with the pioneer's knife (just thinking back to an account of the battle of Stalingrad in which German pioneers used demolition charges to root out a group of Russians only to have the wires repeatedly cut). It would take some creativity to make them good at urban combat without usurping the close quarters class's abilities, though.
Trust me guys, the satchel is not used like an expack.
In 3 days of testing (3-4 hour sessions) Ive only seen maybe 2 infantry killed by satchels. 5 seconds is PLENTY of time to get outside of its blastradiius, plus theyr big and they smoke, so they arnt that hard to miss.
10th May 2004
so uh whats the point of using them then if they have a hard time killing anything?
lukavso uh whats the point of using them then if they have a hard time killing anything?