Combat Effectiveness/Morale system -1 reply

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[tR]Mad Mac

Aerospace Engineering FTW!

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19th May 2004

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#1 13 years ago

McGibs mentioned in an earlier thread that FH2 will have a system in place where the player's accuracy will be dependant not only on his stance/movement but also upon external factors such as nearby explosions, or bullets flying nearby.

I ask why not take this a bit further, and add measures that increase the effectiveness as well?

My idea would be to increase the player accuracy/stamina under these three conditions (perhaps more if you guys can think of others).

1) When in the proximity (a few meters) of a teamate, the player's effectiveness goes up by a small amount. This amount is increased proportionally if the density of nearby teamates is increased. This simulates a comradery or morale boost that would improve the fighting potential of a team.

2) Similar to #1, but an additional boost of accuracy or stamina when fighting near an officer. Again, fighting near an officer would be a source of morale support, and an increase in effectiveness would simulate leadership in dangerous circumstances. In game, it will also offer incentives for officers to fight instead of staying back as a spawnpoint.

3)An accuracy boost (and perhaps a slight decrease in stamina) when a player has been stationary for a prolongued period of time. This could relate to the soldier having "dug in" and become familiar with his surroundings, thus, taking an advantage over an attacking force. However if routed or forced to run, the defending troop would consequently lose morale, and not have the stamina he would normally have. Or perhaps being stationary for a while would cause him to not be as effective on the run if he decided to get up and move.

Of couse all of these factors would be small, but when used correctly will offer a significant advantage to players who know how to use them. These ideas were thought up to help improve both the strategic and teamplay of FH2. What are your thoughts/suggestions?




Gotthard

I don't spend enough time here

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21st September 2005

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#2 13 years ago

I like the ideas. Tho I can't give any feedback since I don't know anything about moding. I belive this will increase teamwork as well.




pvt. Allen

I would die without GF

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20th July 2005

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#3 13 years ago

It's a good idea, but I can't agree with point 3, resting in a place should improve soldiers stamina. I would add also a stamina increase when you're under fire, as said in Brothersi in arms "ther's only one thing on your mind, survive". So when artillery is fireing near you or bullets fly around like crazy you wouldn't say to your self "Hmm, I can die but I'm tired, I won't run, maybe I'll survive":), you would run as fast as you can. Think about it.




Dee-Jaý

Always 1 point ahead of you

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17th February 2004

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#4 13 years ago

Well, I think this might be slightly problematic as there are few factors FH can really imfluence that vary an individuals effectiveness.

I could imagine the stamina being affected by surroundings and maybe even the aiming time if under fire (would also prevent people storming up against MGs). However, besides that I can´t imagine what other stats should be refelcted in a moral system...




caeno

Yeah.

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9th August 2003

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#5 13 years ago

please no! please do not make artificial things that affect your accuracy!




[SYN] hydraSlav

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#6 13 years ago

'[tRMad Mac']McGibs mentioned in an earlier thread that FH2 will have a system in place where the player's accuracy will be dependant not only on his stance/movement but also upon external factors such as nearby explosions, or bullets flying nearby.

I ask why not take this a bit further, and add measures that increase the effectiveness as well?

My idea would be to increase the player accuracy/stamina under these three conditions (perhaps more if you guys can think of others).

1) When in the proximity (a few meters) of a teamate, the player's effectiveness goes up by a small amount. This amount is increased proportionally if the density of nearby teamates is increased. This simulates a comradery or morale boost that would improve the fighting potential of a team.

2) Similar to #1, but an additional boost of accuracy or stamina when fighting near an officer. Again, fighting near an officer would be a source of morale support, and an increase in effectiveness would simulate leadership in dangerous circumstances. In game, it will also offer incentives for officers to fight instead of staying back as a spawnpoint.

3)An accuracy boost (and perhaps a slight decrease in stamina) when a player has been stationary for a prolongued period of time. This could relate to the soldier having "dug in" and become familiar with his surroundings, thus, taking an advantage over an attacking force. However if routed or forced to run, the defending troop would consequently lose morale, and not have the stamina he would normally have. Or perhaps being stationary for a while would cause him to not be as effective on the run if he decided to get up and move.

Of couse all of these factors would be small, but when used correctly will offer a significant advantage to players who know how to use them. These ideas were thought up to help improve both the strategic and teamplay of FH2. What are your thoughts/suggestions?[/quote]

FH is not an MMORPG or some Warhammer 40K table top game. It's an FPS and my accuracy should depend on a) accuracy of the weapon, b) my aiming skills, c) physical external factors.

When i am defending a flag alone against multiple infantry, as a player behind the computer, i get hesitant, try to shoot everyone at once, miss most of the shots and die. Here is your "Decrease in morale/fear".

When i've just been camped by a Tiger tank, and my team finally killed it, i will grab my gun and charge the enemy reinforcement in revenge, dodging bullets and making headshots, with adrenalin pumping in my actual body (not virtual character) from the anger of being camped. Here is your "Morale boost for success of your side"

When i am fighting next to our tanks, i feel more secure, thus will concentrate more on aiming than looking for cover. Here is your accuracy increase. On the flip side, if i am alone in the open, i will spend more time trying to find cover, than aiming, and here is your accuracy decrease

Players accuracy is effected enough from the condition of the actual player sitting at the computer.

[quote="caeno"]please no! please do not make artificial things that affect your accuracy!

Exactly, why make something completely artificial? "Additional boost of accuracy or stamina when fighting near an officer".... this really sounds like some WoW Mage's Aura effecting the other players around him, and has no place in skill-based FPS that is FH




[tR]Mad Mac

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#7 13 years ago

'[SYN hydraSlav']FH is not an MMORPG or some Warhammer 40K table top game. It's an FPS and my accuracy should depend on a) accuracy of the weapon, b) my aiming skills, c) physical external factors.

When i am defending a flag alone against multiple infantry, as a player behind the computer, i get hesitant, try to shoot everyone at once, miss most of the shots and die. Here is your "Decrease in morale/fear".

When i've just been camped by a Tiger tank, and my team finally killed it, i will grab my gun and charge the enemy reinforcement in revenge, dodging bullets and making headshots, with adrenalin pumping in my actual body (not virtual character) from the anger of being camped. Here is your "Morale boost for success of your side"

When i am fighting next to our tanks, i feel more secure, thus will concentrate more on aiming than looking for cover. Here is your accuracy increase. On the flip side, if i am alone in the open, i will spend more time trying to find cover, than aiming, and here is your accuracy decrease

Players accuracy is effected enough from the condition of the actual player sitting at the computer.

Exactly, why make something completely artificial? "Additional boost of accuracy or stamina when fighting near an officer".... this really sounds like some WoW Mage's Aura effecting the other players around him, and has no place in skill-based FPS that is FH[/quote]

If you actually read what I said, I only suggested characteristics to offset what the devs said they are already planning on implementing.

[quote='McGibs']Fireing from iron sights will not use a cone of fire (like stupid BF2 does) but instead, ballistics are determined by where the sights themselves are pointing (and thus, the barrel of the gun). But iron sights have a few values that move them around, and make pointing the sights at something take a bit of practiced skill. Player breathing, weapon weight, and weapon recoil (plus a few external variables, let getting shot or moving and such)

In fact, the only thing I suggested that would decrease effectiveness was decreasing stamina after having been stationary for a long time. This has nothing to do with mmorpg's or anything else (to put you at ease on that, I have never even played any of those games), only giving realistic advantages to those people who play realistically. I fail to see the difference in giving better accuracy to players who stick together verses giving players better accuracy for being prone/in ironsites. Like I said, the advantages would be small, nothing game-altering. They would only be in place to offset things like the lessening of accuracy due to nearby explosions and gunfire.

You see, we are in agreement that effectiveness in game should depend on the skill of the player. As a skilled rifleman in game, I do not want my accuracy to let me down when I am getting shot at, so I would like take advantage of teamwork incentives to counteract the detrimental factors.

The system suggested is very similar to how America's Army works.




[SYN] hydraSlav

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#8 13 years ago
'[tRMad Mac']
Player breathing, weapon weight, and weapon recoil (plus a few external variables, let getting shot or moving and such)
[/quote] [quote='[SYN] hydraSlav']my accuracy should depend on a) accuracy of the weapon, b) my aiming skills, c) physical external factors.

So, what i said before matches with what the devs said. ---

I don't mind losing accuracy when physical (virtual) "factors" happen, such as me running/jumping, explosions next to me, even my health level (physical characteristic) could effect my physical (virtual) abilities.

I fail to see the difference in giving better accuracy to players who stick together verses giving players better accuracy for being prone/in ironsites.

Being prone, you get better support for your gun than if you would be standing, due to the gun's weight/recoil. This is a physical characteristic of the soldier/gun. "Better accuracy for sticking together" is merely a psychic notion. When i play with a group, i can rely on them to cover my back/side, so i can concentrate more on shooting ahead of me, thus my accuracy increases. And here again, it depends on the person.

But why on earth should my accuracy magically and mysteriously increase when i am next to some officer?

You see, we are in agreement that effectiveness in game should depend on the skill of the player. As a skilled rifleman in game, I do not want my accuracy to let me down when I am getting shot at, so I would like take advantage of teamwork incentives to counteract the detrimental factors.

If you get shot in RL, it is very probable your accuracy will decrease, definatelly your accuracy will drop greatly at the exact moment you are shot, and then if you are luck enough to continue aiming, your accuracy may drop due to the fact that you are losing blood and your body is shaking or going into shock, or you simply can't move the arm/squeeze the trigger any more. This is a physical charecteristic.

Now, when you are "next to an officer", there is nothing "physical" that changes your abilities. You may get a psychic boost in morale, but that may not even happen for some people. It's utterly depends on the persons emotional state (which is your actual state as a player). If i feel more "safe" in the presence of an officer/friendly backup, then i (physical "i" thats sitting at the computer) will aim better. If i don't care, then my aim will stay the same.

If i am showing off in front of someone, my aim will be better than if i am just playing the game. This is dependant on my (actual) emotional state

Bottom line is, you cannot assert that a soldier will aim better when in the presence of an officer, but i can assert that a soldier will lose accuracy when he has been shot. This is a difference between a physical characteristic/factor (which is done on the character level in-game) and the psychic/emotional state (which is in your actual head as a player behind the computer) :deal:




[SYN] hydraSlav

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2nd October 2003

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#9 13 years ago

Screw these new board "issues", i can't even edit my posts without screwing them up!!

Not only i have to load the reply page, then edit, then hit preview, then hit "back button", then hit "submit", JUST to make it accept my changes... but now it decides to strip the quotes (") and put the HTML tag for quotes instead :mad:

Sigh......:(




-|DKS|- deathBOB

The BOB of Death

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#10 13 years ago

Yes they suck, I get a critical error in Firefox every other time I come here and lose all of my work.

Anyways, we don't need fancy enhancements. Even getting shot shouldn't effect your aim IMO. Sure, it can take a bite out of your stamina and make you move slower. Maybe if you are very badly wounded or you have been wounded for a while it should have an effect. You could make it just like the breathing with sniper rifles except apply it universally and make it more severe. But getting lightly or moderately wounded shouldn't effect your aim. You have adrenaline going through your body and you are in a life or death situation, it shouldn't immediately throw off what has been drilled into you.

Something important: Have you ever noticed that getting shot slows you down in CS:S? You may say, hey its realistic! But it isn't! If someone shoots and hits you, you immediately slow down. This makes you easy picking for the next shot. In real life your body would have momentum. You would not instantly pause or slow. I think the effect of getting shot on walking and running speed should not take immediate effect. It would be better if it was eased into over the course of a few seconds.

My .02