Desert Rose Suggestions -1 reply

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Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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2nd May 2005

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#1 13 years ago

Hi,

I love Desert Rose when it's a good, balanced game, but I really think that Allies usually are at a massive disadvantage during the opening phase. Axis tends (note: "tends") to have more players because everyone's racing for the Stuka or Tiger, in addition to the obvious equipment advantages. That said, if Allies capture either both top or both bottom flags or some combination of these, the games tend to balance out.

So, without suggesting crippling Axis, here are a few ideas I had on how to improve the map and give Allies even chances at the start. Note that these are INDIVIDUAL IDEAS to be taken as such.

-Give the Tiger a long spawn delay, or only spawn it once certain conditions are fulfilled (i.e. some flag combo is taken.) This would seem to make sense anyway, as heavy equipment should take time to reach the front. The top flags are easy enough for Axis to capture with the Ju52; it's too much to already have a Tiger well on the way for whatever British tanks manage to evade the Stuka.

-Same concept for the Stuka. This is just too powerful as it is. Maybe wait a minute or two to give the majestic MARIO ANDRETTI-APPROVED OH-MY-GOD-HE'S-UP-TO-3-MPH British formula 1 tank army a bit of a head start.

-Give Allies some AA capability at start beyond that Bofors in base (useless unless Axis pilots are morons.) Almost the only chance Allies have at start is getting a Bren carrier or truck to a flag, and that's nearly impossible with both a strafing 109 and a Stuka. Mobile Bofors? Staghound? Whatever. Anything.

-Give the destroyer/Liberty Ship a spawn delay. Usually, some idiot (like me) jumps in one of them and goes off to fight S-boats and the sub. By the time you're done with them, most Axis are already well on the way to the flag, and the only thing left to do is harass reloading planes with idiot pilots, or fight the occasional hyperactive kid who's mad that you blew up his Wespe on shore.

-Create a "back way" for Allies to get up that hill, closer to the allied base. As it stands, it's a pretty bumpy ride in a Bren carrier...

-Give Allies a plane--any plane. Crippled Hurricane Mk. I, Swordfish, Gloster Gladiator, anything to just keep the Stuka even slightly distracted for a few moments. Make the 109 pilot earn his pay.

-Give Allies some stationary artillery in base (howitzer, 6pounder, whatever.) The Bishop won't do, because normally some plank has taken it out as a tank. Although I somehow managed to get one in position above the S. flags last week, don't ask me how. In any case, I can't see how indirect-fire artillery from the ship or Bishops would play a serious role, as the map's too big for the kinds of concentrations of opponents that you'd need. Reminder to self to try that anyway next time around, now that I think of it it might just work...

-Make the ships play a more active role. S-boat/U-boat fights with the destroyer and supply ship are fun, but pointless once either side has been wiped out. It'd be nifty if there were a way to place more of the action on the top flags close to shore (plus it'd be nice to clarify what the hell you're supposed to do with those ships if camping's not allowed anyway.)

-Just one jeep?

After that initial phase, load up with camping Tigers, 88s, whatever. If the Allies have an equal initial chance and blow it, fair enough--there are loads of examples of totally uneven N. Africa battles where British tanks walked into ambushes of 88 nests. But the opener and the resulting imbalanced slaughter are just junk as it stands.

Thoughts?




Christian von Schalburg

[11.Frw]Stbf.Schalburg

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#2 13 years ago
Originally posted by FuzzyBunny -Give Allies some stationary artillery in base (howitzer, 6pounder, whatever.)

The allies already have some stationary artillery I think. When you capture your positions small artillery cannons are available i.e : 2 Pounder or 6 pounder.

Originally posted by FuzzyBunny -Make the ships play a more active role.

This totally depends on the sailors skill. Can he fire the artillery right down to the German base? Does he get an artillery spot? etc.. all important factors.

Originally posted by FuzzyBunny Give Allies a plane--any plane.

They do also already have planes, Swordfish I believe it is. Not just one but more have been up the times I have played this map.




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#3 13 years ago

i find it easy for the allies to win its sometimes just down to team work for me




Christian von Schalburg

[11.Frw]Stbf.Schalburg

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#4 13 years ago

Yes it all depends on teamwork and individual skill. I have played many battles where I felt I was doing all the work :| Many though seem to work together. :)




[21Pz]Stauffenberg

the Wishmaster

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#5 13 years ago

FuzzyBunnyHi,

-Give the Tiger a long spawn delay, or only spawn it once certain conditions are fulfilled (i.e. some flag combo is taken.) This would seem to make sense anyway, as heavy equipment should take time to reach the front. The top flags are easy enough for Axis to capture with the Ju52; it's too much to already have a Tiger well on the way for whatever British tanks manage to evade the Stuka. [COLOR=Blue]Long spawn delay: Yes maybe one minute :D[/COLOR]

-Same concept for the Stuka. This is just too powerful as it is. Maybe wait a minute or two to give the majestic MARIO ANDRETTI-APPROVED OH-MY-GOD-HE'S-UP-TO-3-MPH British formula 1 tank army a bit of a head start. [COLOR=Blue]Only a delay for one of those.[/COLOR] -Give Allies some AA capability at start beyond that Bofors in base (useless unless Axis pilots are morons.) Almost the only chance Allies have at start is getting a Bren carrier or truck to a flag, and that's nearly impossible with both a strafing 109 and a Stuka. Mobile Bofors? Staghound? Whatever. Anything. [COLOR=Blue]Bofors is one of the Best AA thingys in FH, you just gotta know how to use it.[/COLOR] -Give the destroyer/Liberty Ship a spawn delay. Usually, some idiot (like me) jumps in one of them and goes off to fight S-boats and the sub. By the time you're done with them, most Axis are already well on the way to the flag, and the only thing left to do is harass reloading planes with idiot pilots, or fight the occasional hyperactive kid who's mad that you blew up his Wespe on shore. [COLOR=Blue]Yea that[/COLOR] -Create a "back way" for Allies to get up that hill, closer to the allied base. As it stands, it's a pretty bumpy ride in a Bren carrier... [COLOR=Blue]Then also a way for the germans- just fair.[/COLOR] -Give Allies a plane--any plane. Crippled Hurricane Mk. I, Swordfish, Gloster Gladiator, anything to just keep the Stuka even slightly distracted for a few moments. Make the 109 pilot earn his pay. [COLOR=Blue]No[/COLOR] -Give Allies some stationary artillery in base (howitzer, 6pounder, whatever.) The Bishop won't do, because normally some plank has taken it out as a tank. Although I somehow managed to get one in position above the S. flags last week, don't ask me how. In any case, I can't see how indirect-fire artillery from the ship or Bishops would play a serious role, as the map's too big for the kinds of concentrations of opponents that you'd need. Reminder to self to try that anyway next time around, now that I think of it it might just work... [COLOR=Blue]As someone said, its likely they already have some, about the bishop: Buy one gig of ram ( like me :D ) and then you are on the first to load in. [/COLOR] -Make the ships play a more active role. S-boat/U-boat fights with the destroyer and supply ship are fun, but pointless once either side has been wiped out. It'd be nifty if there were a way to place more of the action on the top flags close to shore (plus it'd be nice to clarify what the hell you're supposed to do with those ships if camping's not allowed anyway.) [COLOR=Blue]The ships are just a goodie on this map imo[/COLOR] -Just one jeep? [COLOR=Blue]Take out jeeps totaly imo, people racing through the backlands and capping flags sucks and does not represent how war was fought.[/COLOR] After that initial phase, load up with camping Tigers, 88s, whatever. If the Allies have an equal initial chance and blow it, fair enough--there are loads of examples of totally uneven N. Africa battles where British tanks walked into ambushes of 88 nests. But the opener and the resulting imbalanced slaughter are just junk as it stands. [COLOR=Blue]Afaik there are only pak 40's and a 88 on a Sdkfz 7, which is not used most of the time, so where are the 88's you are talking about?[/COLOR] Thoughts?

My comment is in [COLOR=Blue]blue[/COLOR]




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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#6 13 years ago

Ok, maybe I wasn't clear enough--this was just a list of suggestions, any _one_ of which I would like to see as a _starting condition_. I understand that combining these in any way would totally nerf Axis. That's not the idea.

-Re. Tiger spawn delay: 1-2 minutes is all I would ask for. Enough time for the Allies to get some tanks up the hill and have a chance. Delay EITHER the Tiger OR the Stuka, read above :-)

-Re. Bofors: that's why I said "unless the pilot is a moron." Decent pilots will always catch British tanks well out of effective range of the Bofors. I've taken down plenty of the morons when they venture over the British base, but we are talking about two reasonably clued teams here.

-Re. "Back way in": By all means give the Germans one--I'm not talking about a shortcut, just another way past that bottleneck that inevitably turns into a tank killing ground, no matter who owns the hill.

-Re. Planes: yes, the Allies have Swordfish, IF they capture the airfield. That, in my experience happens about 20% of the time, and only with very good teamwork and a fairly stupid, inattentive Axis team. Like I said, if Allies actually manage to _get a foothold_, all bets are off and the map is balanced.

-Re. Jeeps: that's just an idea to allow Allies to race to a flag at start before Axis brings up the heavy mojo. As for them "not being how war was fought", look up "long range desert group". Typical tanker bias! 8)

-Re. stationary artillery: the Allies get these once they have the hill. Once again, actually allowing them to get that hill (or the airbase) at the start is the whole point of this rant.

-Re. 88s: yes, I know there aren't any--I just used that as a figure of speech, not to be taken literally. If Axis caps both hill flags, the space between the Brit base and the hill turns into a killing ground regardless. You could just put 88s up there and it wouldn't make much of a difference--bunched-up 88s in ambush positions were a favorite Afrika Korps tactic.

-Re. ships: I wouldn't mind if these either (a) did something useful or (b) took some time to spawn, forcing people to focus on the flags at the start instead of going off to sea. If it's (b), I don't care if they're toys/goodies/whatever and serve no purpose.

Btw, I'm running an Athlon 64 3600 with a gig, so loading speed's not a problem. :-)




LIGHTNING [NL]

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#7 13 years ago

It's been changed in 0.7. The allies start out with the airfield now. It's pretty balanced, I think.




Fuzzy Bunny

Luke, I am your mother.

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#8 13 years ago

Awesome! I hope this works out nicely--now the 109 will have something real to do. Disregard all my other suggestions then :-)




Christian von Schalburg

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#9 13 years ago

Yes that sounds good!




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#10 13 years ago

do you know what planes the allies get?