Die Gruppe: The Role of Schutzen -1 reply

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Nurenig

FH Xlite

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26th December 2003

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#1 11 years ago

Quick Overview Gruppenfuhrer: Squad Leader, Schutze 1: Schutze 1 is the MG Gunner Schutze 2: Schutze 2 is the assistant to Schutze 1 Schutze 3: Schütze 3 is the ammo-Schütze and is in full cover behind the M.G. Schutze 4-9: Schütze 4-9 do the fire fight and close combat Ok now you know the make up of a German Gruppe. So what I want to suggest is this, as many of us FH42 gamers know we have the Rifleman kit which is a Kar 98 & some Grenades, that’s how it was from the start but from the above you can see that’s not how it was in ww2 for the Germans, each Schutze has a different role & it was important to the working on the Gruppe, This is how I think it should be put into the Game. As we already know we have Unlock able kits within the Slots for FH. Below I will set out the Equipment & Jobs of each Schutze & why they should be added Schutze Type 2 Historical Layout: Barrel-protector One spare-barrel, 4 ammo-belts, 1 ammo-belt with armour-piercing rounds, 1 ammo-box, Type 34 carrying-belt, Pistol, Short-spade, Sunglasses, My Recommended Layout: Kar 98 4 ammo-belts, 1 ammo-belt with armour-piercing rounds, 1 ammo-box, Short-spade Role: The role of Schutze 2 is defence; his mission is to give the MG all his ammo in game & then move off. He’s strong in defence but weak in attack due to a lack of Ammo & the fact he would have to be Slower than a Schutze 4-9 because of all the ammo he carries. Schutze 4-9 Historical Layout Rifle with 2 ammo pouches, Short shovel Hand grenades as assigned Only If Ordered Belt-drums most with armour-piercing ammo, Smoke grenades, explosives, Ammo, Tripod My Recommended Layout: Kar 98 1 Smoke Grenade 2 Hand Grenades Short shovel Role: This is your attacking Schutze where Schutze 2 is slower this Schutze moves faster because he carries less equipment & therefore moves faster. He is strong in attack but weak in defence because all he has is grenades which are not a great defence weapon. In Closing: Schutze 2 give the team player a choice to help his buddies & bring real strength to the Squads MG where Schutze 4-9 has the ability to a attack but no ability to support his teams MG. Remember now in 1944 the MG accounted for 2/3 of the Gruppe’s firepower & that was in a unit of Stg 44’s.

NOTE: Schutze 3 is a mix between both Schutze types.




Lili Marlene

Tom aka Lili Marlene | FH Dev

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5th December 2004

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#2 11 years ago

Interesting ... I like your suggestions anyway! Question is, will that system work on a public server? We need to find a way to force players to more teamwork! Ideas ???




pvt. Allen

I would die without GF

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19th July 2005

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#3 11 years ago

I'm afraid that suggested layouts are a bit too complicated for realsitic, but still none simulation game the FH2 will be. The main problem is the fact, that ammount of people playing on servers is limited up to 32 per team, and even then it's rarely filled up. Therefore there are just not enough people to represent every real life class. Also I think that unlock kits in class selection screen have been 'fixed' it last patches, so that mods can't use them as it was intended before. Therefore probably again, making pick up kits the main source of variation since it's impossible to randomise stuff including weapons too. I don't say that I wouldn't like to see such a realistic system though someday. I'm just afraid that the limitations that fact of being bf2 mod puts on FH2 are not allowing for this to be implemented. Still, nice suggestion and great knowledge.:)




Nurenig

FH Xlite

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26th December 2003

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#4 11 years ago

EA are gay man. :( The idea was to have 2 types of Schutzes in the game.

Lili Marlene its simple, dont give the MG much ammo so it requires a teamplayer to provde ammo.




No.8 wire man

Who the **** is Reven?

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30th May 2006

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#5 11 years ago
Lili MarleneInteresting ... I like your suggestions anyway! Question is, will that system work on a public server? We need to find a way to force players to more teamwork! Ideas ???[/quote] I personally love the idea of teamwork and cooperation which maybe the saving grace that BF2 and all its foibles brings to the gaming community. Anywho, I have a suggestion to encourage better teamwork. How about rewarding players for cooperation more highly than eliminating enemy forces, so make teamwork 1st priority and killing enemies 2nd. For example, if based on a points system, award 10 points per player for teamwork actions i.e. supplying ammo, helping wounded, repairing vehicles/weapons/bridges. Defending flags/bases 5 points. Killing enemy forces 1 point per kill. Perhaps have unlocks available for players who reach a certain number of points even while game is still active as originally suggested by McGibs. [quote=McGibs]the closest we can maybe get is a per-game system, where for example: support class is an mg34, with an mg42 in the unlock slot. a player plays a game and gets a certain number of points (say 25 or something) then they have the choice of using the mg42. when the game ends, the stats are reset.



Unkn0wn

Rommel's sidekick.

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18th August 2006

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#6 11 years ago

I always thought i'd be awesome if you could require 2 people to form an MG crew, just like it was in reality. (There was not always a third member in MG Crew's this was usually only for Anti Air MG's and such)

Either way, the first person would be the MG gunner, the second person would be the spotter/ammo supplier. He's basically a regular schütze, except he has additional MG ammo round his neck or drum magazines, cans, etc

Since you can't force teamplay on the players, it'd simply go like this: A single MG schütze will be good enough on his own, however he will not carry a whole lot of ammo and he could have slightly larger recoil and decreased accuracy (Since no ones holding your ammunition belt for you)

If a second schütze joins you who has additional ammo he could for example use the "Use" key on an MG gunner to be his ammo supplier. He'd then be "stuck to the position" while being able to look around and spot enemies and "holding the ammo belt while it's being fired".




Pietje

People say I post too much

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13th December 2005

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#7 11 years ago
NurenigSchutze 4-9 Historical Layout Rifle with 2 ammo pouches, Short shovel Hand grenades as assigned Only If Ordered Belt-drums most with armour-piercing ammo, Smoke grenades, explosives, Ammo, Tripod My Recommended Layout: Kar 98 1 Smoke Grenade 2 Hand Grenades Short shovel Role: This is your attacking Schutze where Schutze 2 is slower this Schutze moves faster because he carries less equipment & therefore moves faster. He is strong in attack but weak in defence because all he has is grenades which are not a great defence weapon. In Closing: Schutze 2 give the team player a choice to help his buddies & bring real strength to the Squads MG where Schutze 4-9 has the ability to a attack but no ability to support his teams MG. Remember now in 1944 the MG accounted for 2/3 of the Gruppe’s firepower & that was in a unit of Stg 44’s. NOTE: Schutze 3 is a mix between both Schutze types.

Hmm, and what about rifle grenades? Do they fall under the category "explosives"? And, will they get the correct ammo layout? Also, Nurenig, correct me if im wrong, but didnt you post a thread like this a little while ago? :uhm:




Strumtrupp

FH:STURMTRUPP4|BF2:HG_The Tank

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1st January 2005

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#8 11 years ago

I really like the ideas but there are some problems: In FH42 the mg sucks. Sorry it does. Even at long distances you can get picked off by rifle dudes because of the way you lay behind the thing (with no way of changing that) and, worst of all, the rifle users can snap-shoot you faster then you can pull the trigger, thanks to the fast and ultra-high accuracy.

Sadly MGs are not even close to their RL brethren.

Another problem, which we probably cannot fix is that the only way to even use the MG atm is in a prone position. Wierd idea: is it possible to have static weaponry that you can 'deploy' at certain spots? Imagine this: you have certain spots in the map where you place an mg static (like windows) BUT it is crated 'destroyed' (not there). The MG dude has a special tool (unseen) that can 'create' the static when he 'uses' it. When he leaves the static again, it is returned to the 'destroyed' state. O/C the ammo would have to be transfered to and from the static/mg.

Would it be possible to code the rifle men to one drop ammo kits that only have a little mg ammo? Kinda as to simulate the riflemen dropping ammo.

One problem is and always will be the players. As long as only those that kill get points (or more for doing other stuff that is) no one will stick around and defend.

Giving points opens up a whole can of worms I'd rather not start with.

@Unkn0wn: I really like your 'stuck to' idea. But I have no idea if you can code in anything that would enable the stuck guy to influence anything.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

Wanna go Double Dutch?

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9th December 2003

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#9 11 years ago
pvt. AllenI'm afraid that suggested layouts are a bit too complicated for realsitic, but still none simulation game the FH2 will be. The main problem is the fact, that ammount of people playing on servers is limited up to 32 per team, and even then it's rarely filled up. Therefore there are just not enough people to represent every real life class. Also I think that unlock kits in class selection screen have been 'fixed' it last patches, so that mods can't use them as it was intended before. Therefore probably again, making pick up kits the main source of variation since it's impossible to randomise stuff including weapons too. I don't say that I wouldn't like to see such a realistic system though someday. I'm just afraid that the limitations that fact of being bf2 mod puts on FH2 are not allowing for this to be implemented. Still, nice suggestion and great knowledge.:)

Exactly. I would love such a layout but per squad it would be nasty.. ofcourse the devs will have to keep histortical gear and jobs in mind (they will). Full squads with historical correct layout will only work in games with hundreds of players like WW2 online.. :( Same as with multi tank crew: lovely but with 32 people on one team? You would basically have 2-3 squads fighting eachother or a handfull of tanks (or one with proper infantery support). WOuld be kinda weird...

"Battle of El Alemein, British squad and their tank versus the German squad and a tank"... :lol:




Unkn0wn

Rommel's sidekick.

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18th August 2006

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#10 11 years ago

Would be nice if they made the MG gunner at least as powerful as it really was against hordes of infantry.

Would then require more tactic to take it out than just popping up and shooting him from miles away because your rifle is supposedly superior.

Ofcourse when not deployed, Mg's should be hardly usable because of the HUGE recoil. Not to mention they should rely on others for additional ammo.

Kinda like the Day of Defeat system where snipers and mg guns are closest to their real counterpart.




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