Different spot-system for artillery -1 reply

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Guest

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#1 10 years ago

I know that the devs put a lot of work in the current artillery spot system, but i am not really happy with it. As a spotter you never know how good your spot is. On the other side it is very boring to wait for spots when you are the crew of a gun. I think this is the reason why you seldom see the guns manned on the public server(s). This is sad because they are a nice tactical feature which has the potential to deepen game experience. Therefore i suggest a little change to the current system. Is it posibble to give the spotters a tactical map like the squadleaders and let them mark the artillery targets on the map and not with binocs on the "real" ground?

This had two advantages: - avoid spot problems while spotting "up the hill" - gunners could give them self targets (like enemy capture points) as long as there are no other targets from "in field" players.

To avoid an exploit of the gunner self spot, the top down view of the target area should be removed. Giving targets on a map would also fell more like real life where you had to look on a map to give the arty the correct coordinates of the target.

There probably will be some guys now arguing that a gunner-spotter team using voip has no problem with coordinating their fire, but as always I have to remind those guys that not everybody playing on public server(s) speaks english well enough to communicate poperly with the other players. Some who do speak english are too shy to do so.

I think this chang would make artillery more important. At the current state it is only a funny gimmick. But in RL, artillery was responsible for the majority of casualties. (Sorry no source at the moment, but I once read this in a book about flak jackets). Americans for example did normaly not attack when they had no severe artillery- or airsupport.




spitfire05

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18th February 2008

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#2 10 years ago

Think about it once again. Gunner-spotter who can make his spot everywhere just by click on a map (like 4 kilometers away, behind mountains, river and city). Realistic as hell.




Flippy Warbear

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2nd January 2004

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#3 10 years ago

2.15 might increase spotters in the public servers due the new merit system. Each kill the gunner makes with your spot, the more teamwork points you get.

Also, a good spotter knows when his spot is good and when not, so he knows what sort of spots he can give and how to give them. I posted a guide for artillery targetting long ago when 2.0 came out.

Basically four easy steps would be:

- Use static objects next to your preferred targets, or the ground just infront of the target if there are no statics around. Avoid targetting stationary weapons and vehicles directly, instead, spot statics or ground just next to them. - Never lay down when spotting, it minimizes the chances to get a good spot for the target. How many times have I've gotten a spot where you just see the spotter himself laying on the ground? Way too many. Use crouch or if situation allows, stand up. - Allow the targets to refresh properly when gunning, sometimes you just see open terrain and no one in the view, this is because the "spot" hasnt reached its destination yet, refresh the view with "next/previous target" function of your comrose. - Rotate ammunition to avoid accidental fires and or sudden arrivals of your teammates into the field of vision. Nothing is more sad than being too quick at sending that HE flying towards the view just when friendlies run underneath the targeted area. I prefer having smoke as my standard ammunition loaded and when receiving target, rotate to HE (as AP are just pointless...), you have loaded the gun and ready to fire when you hit 0-0 and have adjusted the aim.

And bingo, artillery spotting and gunning in a nutshell.




Tiny578

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8th October 2008

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#4 10 years ago

Hmm...I don't really know about that, would put to much power in the artillery guys hands. And I think that the guns are manned alot. What I think would be really cool is if you could "follow" the shells travel as in 1942. That would sort make it less stiff as well.




Guest

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#5 10 years ago

@ spitfire In RL the artillery fired on coordinates on a map. The spotter only told them if there were targets at these coordinates or not. It actual happened that they fired on coordinats where they did not know if there were enemies or not (targets like villages for example).

@ Flippy Warbear I read this guidlines, but sometimes it is not possible to see the ground infront of the target because of objects or terrain blocking the view. Besides that, it is often very deadly to stand up so spot a target when there are enemies around you.




Flippy Warbear

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#6 10 years ago
sometimes it is not possible to see the ground infront of the target because of objects or terrain blocking the view.

Then your position is wrong. You must find a better unobstructed view.

Besides that, it is often very deadly to stand up so spot a target when there are enemies around you.

Yes, standing IS dangerous, that is why crouch is a good function. I do not say that prone does not allow proper spots to happen, but it is sometimes not worth the trouble when you can just use some obstacle or dune as a cover, then quickly rise up to crouch or stand, give spot, then hit the dirt and crawl away. Using cover is adviced when spotting, it is good if you have a huge field of vision to the enemy, cover and concealment and a self-defense position from where you can shoot the enemies who are looking for you without giving them too much of a chance to attack you.

Good spotter knows his enviroment, knows the spotting mechanism and knows the hot spots where the enemy units usually are concentrated.




luftwaffe.be

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#7 10 years ago

I don't like your idea in its raw form. However you do give me a good taught. What if when a spotter spots a target, it is visable on his minimap what the target is he spotted. A yellow arty icon can for instance apear on his minimap, just like when a SL request a arty barage for commander, so the spotter knows where the target he spotted is located.




Guest

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#8 10 years ago

Maybe it is too powerfull as long as the at guns are not really mobile. Artillery could always shell their positions as long as they are known at the start of the map. I dream of a life where AT-guns are moved by Trucks and the capture areas are way bigger =p. This would make it impossible for the artillery to rape the guns.




Lobo

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27th April 2003

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#9 10 years ago

No, the actual system is more elegant than your proposal. Yes, in WW2 the artillery crew would get coordinates and attack that position, but in the real war, unlike the game you don't know the position of your enemy until you get intel about it. Our spotting-artillery system is the translation of that reality, your scout team gives intel and the artillery uses those coordinates to destroy the target.




Frederf

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#10 10 years ago
  1. As a spotter you never know how good your spot is. Is it possible to give the spotters a tactical map like the squad leaders and let them mark the artillery targets on the map and not with binoculars on the "real" ground?
  2. Gunners could give them self targets (like enemy capture points) as long as there are no other targets from "in field" players.
  3. To avoid an exploit of the gunner self spot, the top down view of the target area should be removed.
  4. but as always I have to remind those guys that not everybody playing on public server(s) speaks english well enough to communicate poperly with the other players. Some who do speak English are too shy to do so.

1. I think it is a very good idea to give the spotter some kind of feedback about where his spot landed. You have to be real cautious that your otherwise clear view of the target hit some invisible fence plane that screwed it up. Just a brief mark on the map would let you know that you hit the corner of the building you were peaking around and not what you thought you were aiming at.

2. Artillery is a powerful weapon and I think the more powerful the weapon is the more teamwork should be required to use it effectively for balance reasons. However it is obviously realistic for an artillery unit to be able to fire at a commander-indicated point on a map without a spotter on the scene it would/should be very inaccurate. The spotter is used to spot targets of opportunity and to give feedback for accuracy refinement.

If the gunner is allowed to do this, then it should take 30 seconds or so of progress bar on the map screen to accomplish to represent all the pencil and paper work required to figure out an inaccurate firing solution. Certain zones like main bases might be made to not work with that system.

3. The top down gunner view is a bit silly. Seeing an enemy crouching behind sandbags on a rooftop through some magic eye in the sky despite really being so far away you can't even see the building is messed up. You swing the gun over and all of a sudden you have psychic artillery.

I understand the spot view is supposed to represent the spotter giving corrections and feedback that a human player won't do because he's not that helpful (hey it's a public internet game). The old method in FH1 where the spot was from the view of the spotter made a lot more sense since it's supposed to represent the spotter's feedback which would be done from that position in terms of what he can and cannot see. The FH2 "cheater" overhead camera is bad.

I would like to propose that spots give a camera view for only the first 20 seconds of the spot duration. This represents the "adjust fire" period where the aim of the gun is still being refined. After 20 seconds the camera view is gone but the gun solution tick marks remain until the spot times out. This is the "fire for effect" phase where you are shooting at the solution you arrived at during the adjust fire phase.

4. I agree that the artillery system should be usable reasonably by people who are not communicating like they were in some clan.