Falaise Gap-Taken Seriously -1 reply

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Jomboholic

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29th August 2007

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#1 10 years ago

Hey its me again... Anyhow, I thought it would be a good idea to make the falaise gap battles for FH2 mush bigger. Only Goodwood received any real attention, and this is strange, seeing as both the western and southern ends or the battle, where the Germans had assualted as part of the original counter attack, were held by the Americans. I advise making the following maps: Defense of Hill 317-American Inf Battalion stops the 2nd SS Panzer, which had never failed Hitler before. A larger scale American end of Falaise. Falaise was 10 vs. 10 armored divisions. Kursk was 12 vs. 12. (Source:John Keegan-The Second World War) Aricraft should be added, as there were none in FH1 and in the later stages of the battle swarms of planes attacks the Germans, after the promises german airsupport was shot down by American fighters en-route.




Meadow

You might very well think that

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21st February 2004

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#2 10 years ago

Good points, but we really shouldn't expect the Falaise Gap for a long, long time. Perhaps there's a way for mods to tag these threads that may be useful in the future, then bump them when the Western Front is being produced? (from what Lobo is saying, I gather that will be just after North Africa)




emonkies

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17th July 2003

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#3 10 years ago
FlyGuy45

*TRA* Spsk. Pilotka VVS

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22nd June 2005

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#4 10 years ago

Would that gun be able to take out the Panther at that range?




Jomboholic

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29th August 2007

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#5 10 years ago

No, but a 57mm could knock out a pantehr from the flank at 750m




jumjum

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11th April 2005

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#6 10 years ago
FlyGuy45;3899663Would that gun be able to take out the Panther at that range?

Hell no it couldn't, certainly not face on. It might have been able to have taken out the PzIv-H next to the Panther if it could have waited for a solid 90-degree shot. But in the painting the crew has a huge deflection angle on the PzIV that IMO would send its pitiful 2.4 inch projectile skipping merrily across the French landscape without having scratched the panzer's camo.* As it is, it appears they've already fired once or have otherwise been discovered, and as the Pz IV swings its gun on them, they are about to be one dead AT crew.

I've often thought what it must have been like for US tankers, anti-tank gunners or bazooka men in Normandy. To have had to fight with almost useless weapons against the German tanks must have been torture. I'm sure those men were willing to fight, even die, but to have been sent into a battle which they knew they almost certainly would lose must have been a special sort of hell.

Re: FH's Falaise Gap map, it is one map that for me doesn't "feel" like what I imagined the battle was like. I assume the scenario is supposed to be that the US forces are blocking the path of the SS unit's retreat (what ville is it supposed to be?). It feels like a head-on attack by each side against the other's town. But then I'm not sure how you make a map reflect an army trying to slip through an ever-decreasing gap.

Perhaps the way to handle Falaise is to make it an Objective map, with the German goal being to slip or fight its way past Allied forces on either flank or past a certain "safe" point. For example, the German movement would be on an eastward axis down a path which is open as the map begins. The Allies would be north and south of the German line of advance, and their goal would be to move into the flanks of the German column, cutting it off if possible. The German armor, screening the main infantry columns, couldn't afford to stand and slug it out with Allied armor, but would have to find the proper balance between outright escape and active (but hopefully still rolling) defense of themselves and the escaping infantry. This is one map where even in MP having a bunch of German bots bent on escape eastward might help the game. Adding Typhoons (which for gameplay purposes would have to be countered by a ton of German motorized AA) could give such a map a unique and very accurate atmosphere.

But that is a tall order.

* I can't recall where I found it, but within the last couple of days I came across an online memoir of a 57mm AT gunner, who said that they quickly learned the guns were useless against German tanks, and instead were used in support of infantry, to blow in doors or assault bunkers.




Jomboholic

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29th August 2007

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#7 10 years ago

Well, bout the 57mm pic, they could just shoot the Pz4 in the side..... Yeah about the map, I picture it as a Western Kursk, so loads of tanks everywhere. If you did hill 317, the U.S. just gets tank destroyers and infantry. But if you do a Vill, yeah the objective thing works. It should be required though to caputre every spaw along the way though, that way the Krauts cant win by simply takiung the exit point. Furthermore, if Fh2 dipict the Sherman vs. Pazer combat correctly, if will be, er, not "quite" as bad. All types of M4 wouold be able to take out Pz4's frontally. Still, the Allies would still be at a disadvantage in the armor area. Also, not only typhoons but P-47's By the way, at the range in the pic,like 13 yards the 57 could probably have killed the Pz4 frontally at 60 degrees-from horiz. It penetration at 100m is 104mm.




jumjum

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#8 10 years ago
Jomboholic;3901734Well, bout the 57mm pic, they could just shoot the Pz4 in the side.....

That was my point. But they aren't going to penetrate at all at the angle presented by the Pz IV, because it's a guaranteed ricochet. And they won't ever have a solid 90-degree shot at the side of the Pz IV because they are seconds from dying.




antabax

GF Pwns Me!

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9th August 2007

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#9 10 years ago

how did u guys know all this stuff ? did a research or just a quick search at wiki ?




jumjum

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#10 10 years ago

As far as me, it's just that I'm old, and I've spent a lifetime reading about this stuff. And I'm still not an expert in any particular field.