GeForce GTS vs Voodoo 5 5500 -1 reply

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NickGeorio

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14th May 2000

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#1 18 years ago

Why are 3dfx pushing FSAA so much when there is so much of a performance hit when using it. I would rather just run in higher resolution, that way you get less jaggies plus the higher res. As for their effort at E3, showing their Voodoo 5 at 2xFSAA versus 4xFSAA for the GTS, talk about crippling the opposition. How about showing how your "next gen" card (Voodoo 5 5500) gets beaten by a GeForce 1 DDR by 5 FPS in Q3 Normal Quality in 1024x768 (Courtesy of Thresh's Firingsquad).

[This message has been edited by NickGeorio (edited 05-15-2000).]




Alf

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24th January 2000

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#2 18 years ago

We are pushing it because it offers a dramatic improvement in visual quality. Yes, it causes a hit in performance but this is going to vary from application to application and in all applications it is less of a hit than the competition takes when FSAA is enabled on their product.

You only say you would rather run in higher resolutions because you have not actually seen FSAA in action. Really, that's the only explanation. Upping the resolution does not get rid of the jaggies, nor does it reduce pixel popping or crawling. You'll find that running at lower resolutions with FSAA enabled is actually superior to higher resolutions without FSAA because FSAA gets rid of the gaggies.

Comparing our 2X to nVidia's 4X was putting the cards on even ground, not crippling the competition. Just check any screenshots, they are visually comparable. Even comparing 4X to 4X has the Voodoo5 getting the higher numbers, so that argument just doesn't wash.

As for being beaten by (gasp) a whole 5fps in Q3 at 1024x768, that's really grasping at straws, especially when the lead goes to the Voodoo5 5500 at higher resolutions (not to mention Q3 isn't the only game out there). And as nVidia has said many times, it's not just about frame rates, it's about visual quality. And meeting on that ground, throwing in the FSAA and the 32 bit color and large textures and all... the numbers speak for themselves. The 5500 trounces the GeForce2.

Don't be afraid... check it out... give it a chance... unless your only criteria for buying a card is the manufacturer's logo (and assuming you don't like the 3dfx logo), you won't be disappointed. :-)

That answer your questions? :-)




NickGeorio

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#3 18 years ago

Good argument, let's just say that if Anandtech, Toms Hardware and Firingsquad prefer the Voodoo5 5500 to the GeForce2 then I'll buy it. But I guess these things always come down to what you want out of your video card. Does the Voodoo 5 supports DirectX video compression?




JMike

The Internet ends at GF

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21st January 2000

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#4 18 years ago

The Voodoo 5 card sounds nice, and if it had gotten T&L also I would've bought one, maybe even the almighty V 5 6000 card.

But alas, it doesn't, and I'm quite happy with my Annihilator Pro card, so I'll wait for the NV 20 and rampage for my next buy... smile.gif And yes, the V 5 support compression, FXT1 and DXTC...




mgjk0000

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26th October 1999

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#5 18 years ago

Hmm, not sure that it's really fair to say that the V5 trounces the GTS2.

I think a better summary would be that in certain tests the GTS2 appears to be slighty faster, whilst generally the V5 looks better.

All the reviews I've read have said quite categorically that FSAA really is the dogs nuts, so it's sounds worth a good look.

I like the fact that FSAA is also backwards compatible with older games, nice move. I can also see an advantage to using it at lower resolutions. For those of us with only 15" monitors (hopefully not for too long), running at much higher resolutions can make some games nearly unplayable (you try using the crosshairs on a 15" monitor on CS when you're running at over 800x600).

Just one other point, there was an article yesterday written by John Carmack. As a developer for Q3, he's probably got a good feel for what features might be used in the near future. He was generally more impressed by the GTS2. Not that he said a lot about T&L (that great breakthrough that was going to revolutionise games).

Personally, I think I'd go the V5 route and take the FSAA at slightly slower speeds.

Any other thoughts?




NickGeorio

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#6 18 years ago

I noticed this over at Sharky Extreme's excellent NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS Guide...

As for 3dfx and their VSA-100 architecture, what we've seen so far doesn't bode all that well. As visually pleasing as full-scene Anti-Aliasing is, the VSA-100 with or without AA is just too slow in our book. Two VSA-100's (the Voodoo5 5500) are not better than one NV10 chip. Buying GigaPixel might be more of a distraction than anything else. A new chip from 3dfx in the next six months? Don't bet on it…




gavo

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18th May 2000

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#7 18 years ago

3dfx are da best man! They are the l33t doods in the 3d-acceleration biz!

The V5 6000 is gonna smoke the GeForce2 anyday! FSAA works now for games that we play now, yo don't have to wait for it like T&L (Testicles&Labia-minora!). Buy for the now and worry about T&L later!

I don't need no stinkin geometery acceleration, special per-pixel effects, environmental bump-mapping, S3TC, stencil buffer, screw that stuff. Gimme blurred images - hollywood on the desktop - yeah!! eat that nVIDIA! you take it from nVIDIA bending over backwards NickGeorio!

3dfx rools!




gavo

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18th May 2000

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#8 18 years ago

Looks like NickGeorio couldn't stand the heat because of the 'silence' after my last post. Well I say, "stay outta da kitchen if you can't stand it bro!".

I read today that 3dfx have a duel (quad for V5-6000) memory interface to their chips, whereas nVIdiots cards only have a single memory interface. Take that right-jab to the ribs! Crack!

Sure it means that 3dfx need to use TWICE the amount of video memory, or even FOUR TIMES (in the case of V5-6000) but hey, doesn't 128MB RAM on the video card sound heaps better than 32MB! Yeah baby yeah!

Now the V5-5500 has the SAME memory bandwith (5.3GB/s) as a GeForce2 GTS! Just read all about it at: http://www.gamefan.com/repre.asp?g=1980&t=r&pg=5

And that is with single data rate RAM! Wait until 3dfx put DDR into these puppies, then we're gonna see 3dfx have no problem with memory bandwidth at all, which is what is holding back you nVidiots.

Why is the GeForce2 not much faster than a GeForce1 DDR? Answer: Memory Bandwidth! Not much good having double the theoretical fill rate if you can't use it! The 'GPU' is twidling its thumbs waiting for memory to send it stuff. Take that left hook to the chops! Bam!

But you say, "yeah but you need more memory for a 3dfx card". Well suckers, once companies get with it and start pumping out the games for DXTC, or better still FXT1, then the amount of memory is not going to be a problem because of 6:1 compression ratios. Kapow! It's a knockout! 3dfx wins with an explosive king-hit to nvida's lit and transformed testicles! Ouch!




Alf

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24th January 2000

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#9 18 years ago

About the DirectX Video Compression... DirectX is fully supported in the drivers (they are WHQL after all).




NickGeorio

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#10 18 years ago

This was at tom's hardwares G-Force2 article. http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q2/000427/index.html "You will have to try it out to see if FSAA is worth its performance impact for you. It always brings a quality improve that is quite noticeable, but as long as 3D chips don't have the fill rate and memory to support FSAA at 1280x1024x32 I will stay away from it. You will find benchmark results to that topic further down in the article...... I would suggest every person to get a T&L-equipped 3D card soon....The NV15-level has shown how badly a card without integrated T&L performs at such levels. If 3dfx has got a prototype of the V5 6000 they should run this NV15 level on it. If the frame rate stays under 30 fps I'd recommend that they never release V5 6000 in the first place and finally get a move on developing integrated T&L. It's hard to believe, but I would miss 3dfx if they should be forced to leave the PC 3D scene. "

Read that and cry baby boy gavo, your "blurred effects" are not so liked by Tom. Not quite such a knockout as you put it.

[This message has been edited by NickGeorio (edited 05-25-2000).]




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