KV-2 is underpowered -1 reply

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Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#1 13 years ago

I tested the gun today after suspecting that it was underpowered. I was playing Valirisk and I was hit several times by the shells while in a Tiger and suffered almost no damage.

attachment.php?attachmentid=33291&stc=1

The KV-2 has a 154.2mm cannon that fired HEAT shells in a AT role. So, the shells should penetrate ~150mm of armor. The Tiger I E has 100mm of armor in the front.

Now, assuming I get a clean hit dead on, that Tiger should be utterly destroyed. This is not the case. Keep in mind that since the KV-2 fires HEAT, range is not going to affect the damage incurred.

I fired 4 shots into the front of the Tiger at 400 meters to 100 meters and it wasn't even 1/4 dead yet. I then fired 1 shot into the side from 50 meters and it had half life left.

attachment.php?attachmentid=33290&stc=1

I hit the tracks and it went up in smoke.

What this tells me is that the KV-2 is coded to fire HE rounds and not HEAT. This needs fixed, because the KV-2 was advertised on the FH webpage as being a Tiger-killer, and because it would be realistic for this to happen.

I tested a few other tanks against the KV-2. A shot to the front of a BT-7 DID NOT KILL IT, but did cause it to burn. A shot to the front of a T-34 did not kill it, but caused grey smoke. A shot to the front of a Panzer IV E killed it, but it took 4 to kill a Stug3g.

My conclusion is that the KV-2 needs to be fixed. Please use the penetration tables for HEAT rounds.




Skipster

I live on Gaming Forums

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29th July 2004

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#2 13 years ago
Ohioan What this tells me is that the KV-2 is coded to fire HE rounds and not HEAT. This needs fixed, because the KV-2 was advertised on the FH webpage as being a Tiger-killer, and because it would be realistic for this to happen. I tested a few other tanks against the KV-2. A shot to the front of a BT-7 DID NOT KILL IT, but did cause it to burn. A shot to the front of a T-34 did not kill it, but caused grey smoke. A shot to the front of a Panzer IV E killed it, but it took 4 to kill a Stug3g. My conclusion is that the KV-2 needs to be fixed. Please use the penetration tables for HEAT rounds.

Be careful what you wish for, concerning better ammo types. PzIVD's and StuGIIIB's had HEAT too. Pz38T's had Pzgr39. Do you really want every German vehicle to be a one-shot killer? I'm pretty sure that all vehicles in FH use penetration stats for the 2nd best ammo type they used, So HE for the KV-2 (and StugIIIB, PzIVD for that matter) makes sense (although beefed up HE for these vehicles would be nice). Anybody that thinks the KV-2 is a Tiger killer is dreaming, no matter what the webpage says.




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#3 13 years ago

Well.. As the KV2 is the only big gunned tank the russians have at this time, it would be nice if its gun could take care of tigers on for example valarisk. Tigers have nothing to fear from t-34's, PTrd's in the case air cover is absent for the russians. Im all for Ohian's suggestion.




Von Mudra

Lo, I am Mudra, za emo soldat!

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25th September 2004

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#4 13 years ago

And, anyways, it doesn't matter in real life if it does fire HE shells. the IS-2, ISU-152 and SU-152 all used HE, not Heat of AP shells. IN real life, just the pure blast of the explosion was known to be able to blow the turret of Tigers and Panthers into the air.

So, yes, increase the amount of damage it can do to all German tanks. And, let us never forget the battle where one KV-2 held off a German Panzer Division for days.




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#5 13 years ago

Von MudraAnd, anyways, it doesn't matter in real life if it does fire HE shells. the IS-2, ISU-152 and SU-152 all used HE, not Heat of AP shells. IN real life, just the pure blast of the explosion was known to be able to blow the turret of Tigers and Panthers into the air.

So, yes, increase the amount of damage it can do to all German tanks. And, let us never forget the battle where one KV-2 held off a German Panzer Division for days.

To clarify:

HE - High Explosive. Same as artillery, AA guns. HEAT - High Explosive Anti Tank, which is shaped charge rounds designed to penetrate armor HESH - High Explosive Squash Head. Round designed to spall armor and kill tank crews instead of penetration HEAP - High Explosive Anti Personel. Usually contains fragmentation components, designed to destroy infantry. AP - Armor Piercing. Standard hard metal pole shot past the speed of sound and penetrates due to kinetic energy.

HEAT is completely different from HE. Also, if the KV-2 is functioning as a tank destroyer (which I think it is in FH) it should NOT be firing HE. It should have at least the bare minimum round for the job. No tank crew would ever use HE for anti tank duties unless they had nothing else. As for the comments above about every tank being a one hit kill, you missed the point.

This gun is 152.4mm wide. Its a HUGE FREAKING GUN. This gun, if no other, SHOULD be a one-hit-kill on anything it hits and anything within 40 meters of that. I don't care what the P38t fired, because that's not the point. The point was that the KV-2 can't get through Tiger armor, which it both could and did in reality. I'm just saying that because FH uses the worst round for the job (I know this) then they should use the worst round for the job, not a round for a completely different job.

The KV-2 features the largest-caliber gun on the ground in FH. This doing 8% damage to a Tiger with a good hit is sad. The gun IS underpowered, they DID have and did use HEAT shells, and the Tiger SHOULD die to it. Anlushac back me up here.




emonkies

I'm too cool to Post

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17th July 2003

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#6 13 years ago

Wrong gun, it is a 152mm howitzer but it is not the same one that was in the SU-152. HEAT shells were not available for the 152mm M-10.

Please notice, only high-explosive shells with reduced propellant charge were used for KV-2's gun! No armor-piercing and concrete-piercing ammo used! It allowed to use Naval Semi-AP Round M.1915/28. However this ammo used only in Red Navies, it was absent in Red Army's warehouses. Despite some modern sources, the usage of armor-piercing and concrete-piercing ammunition was prohibited; it was highlighted in the KV-2's Operational Manual. The problem was with its big recoil; it definitely jammed KV's turret.

http://www.battlefield.ru/kv2.html

The SU-152's 152mm ML-20 had a HEAT round and was used to best of my knowledge for the first time at Kursk.

The SU-122 was IIRC the first Soviet Artillery gun to get a HEAT round and was used by the SU-122 in combatjust before and during Kursk.




S1l3ntSt4lk3r

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27th May 2004

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#7 13 years ago

that was vs pzr3s not tigers




Gauntlet

Dead rather than Red!

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26th April 2004

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#8 13 years ago

aha...question then: When was the IS-1 ready for action? Was it used operationally?




D-Fens

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2nd May 2003

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#9 13 years ago
Run 4 Da Gunthat was vs pzr3s not tigers

I think it was worse... Pz35's & 38's




Skipster

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29th July 2004

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#10 13 years ago
OhioanThis gun is 152.4mm wide. Its a HUGE FREAKING GUN. This gun, if no other, SHOULD be a one-hit-kill on anything it hits and anything within 40 meters of that. I don't care what the P38t fired, because that's not the point.

The impression I got was that you thought the KV-2 was ineffective because it didn't have HEAT ammo. That's why I mentioned the other tanks. They are less effective because they don't have their best ammo type. So why should one tank get it's best ammo, and not any others?

Anlushac back me up here.

Apparently the KV-2 did not have HEAT rounds available. So all is well :D