limitations to spawn on SL in fh2? -1 reply

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caeno

Yeah.

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9th August 2003

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#1 13 years ago

i searched for a while and didn't seem to find an answer... so Will there be any limits for spawning on squadleader? let's say if mcgibs tent idea would be the final system used, will you be able to spawn on squadleader where ever you want on the map (i mean will the squadleader be able to create the tent anywhere), behind enemy lines, miles away from your teams flagspawnpoints?

Imo, this will ruin the game, if people are allowed to spawn behind enemy lines with no "real supply line" for them.

Haven't thought of how this could be solved, but couple of ideas: -certain distance from your teams flag. IE. your squadleader is 500 meters away from your flag and flagspawnpoints and you are able to spawn on squadleader (or the tent SL creates). If this would be used, would be good if this distance would vary a bit... so that's it's not always 500 meters, but instead it would change from 400 to 600 so that people can't really calculate when they can and can't spawn. -if there is an enemy flag between your teams flag and the position of your SL, you're not able to spawn. -some kind of area, that the mapper would create, where you would be able to make a SL spawntent.

My biggest fear for FH2 is the squadsystem. I really really hope you devs think this through 1 000 times and test it 10 000 times before you decide :D This feature can be the best thing FH2, but done poorly, it can ruin the mod totally. :/




Rikupsoni

Victim of Forgotten HopeForum bystander

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26th April 2004

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#2 13 years ago

Agreed, that's pretty important feature. Hmm, hopefully it's possible to modify..




Lützow

Dread thinks I'm a special person

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5th October 2005

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#3 13 years ago

I don't like the tent-idea, this one sounds better.




[tR]Mad Mac

Aerospace Engineering FTW!

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19th May 2004

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#4 13 years ago

The current system works fine, why mess with it?

I seriously have never seen anything bad about the BF2 squad-spawning system. It keeps the fights going on longer, and it keeps people working together. These are benefits for both gameplay and teamwork.




-|DKS|- deathBOB

The BOB of Death

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#5 13 years ago
'[tRMad Mac']I seriously have never seen anything bad about the BF2 squad-spawning system. It keeps the fights going on longer, and it keeps people working together. These are benefits for both gameplay and teamwork.

Exactly. Sure, you squad leader can sneak back. You can spawn on him, attack a flag. But the defenders have squad leaders to. They can sit out side a flag you are attacking and counterattack. The system works both ways.

The reason why people sneak to the back in BF2 is a lack of choke points on maps. By lack, I mean absolutely zero. That and it takes 3 seconds to cap a flag when you have a squad on it.




caeno

Yeah.

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9th August 2003

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#6 13 years ago

well, seems like you've never played a clan match in BF2... or if you have, you and your opponent weren't top clans :)

With this question/suggestion i wanted to bring up "frontlines" to the discussion. I agree with you 100% that squads keep the fightings going on and improves team play, but in BF2 when you are able to spawn anywhere on the map disregarding all enemy flags, troops etc. it doesen't really create any frontlines. It just creates hassle and makes people run from flag to flag, capping and capping, statswhoring and statswhoring... You can call it team play if you and your squad run 30 minutes from flag to flag in a group capping everything; defending nothing.

If FH2 would disable the possibility of spawning on squadleader _IF_ the SL is behind enemy lines or if between the SL and nearest team flag has too many enemies, That would create a frontline which you have to penetrate by attacking it and capping flags and not by sneaking one guy behind the frontline and then have some other guys spawn there.

I'll give you a little example which is a bit off topic, but might open your eyes about this a bit more. Imagine a soccer match where Team A is attacking with 8 players, they control the ball currently and they are near Team B goal. Now, suddenly, the ball and most of the Team B players teleport near Team A goal. (so, 8 players from Team A are in Team B's side of the soccerfield, but the teleported Team B guys only have 2 players fomr team A against them) Team B makes a score really easily, because they were 8vs2 in this situation. Would you play a game like that? the whole situation changes totally in a few seconds and there aren't any effective ways to countermeasure this teleporting fast enough.

Now, think what this has to do with BF2. Let's take an example, Strike at karkand 16p version. The map is a "tube" and i suppose the flags are meant to be capped in order. In this example, MEC is Team A, which is ("attacking" or) "controlling the ball" by defending very well. Now, US (team B) has managed to get one guy through the frontline and he's near the back flag called "market". Then, the sneaker guy makes Bravo squad and the whole US team (team B teleporting) has joined the bravo squad, spawned, left the bravo squad(thus allowing new guys to join the squad and spawn) and created new squads near the back flag. The whole situation in this map is changed. Team A has "lost the ball", because team b isn't attacking them from their flags, but they've managed to make a squad behind enemy lines, a long way from their own flag, because of spawning on squadleader.

I want to remove that people are able to spawn behind enemy lines. that's all i want to restrict about spawning on squadleader.




Dios

Cannon Fodder

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17th February 2004

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#7 13 years ago
caenoNow, think what this has to do with BF2. Let's take an example, Strike at karkand 16p version. The map is a "tube" and i suppose the flags are meant to be capped in order.

Heh, if the flags are really meant to be capped in order, it'll be a push map, so they can sneak to the back as much as they want that it'll be useless. If the map doesn't have push mode, then the flags would be capped just the same even without SL spawn, if the defenders aren't smart enough as to stop the guys sneaking behind them, which is actually harder to do (sneaking I mean) with a whole squad than with just one guy.




-|DKS|- deathBOB

The BOB of Death

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3rd June 2004

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#8 13 years ago
caenoNow, think what this has to do with BF2. Let's take an example, Strike at karkand 16p version. The map is a "tube" and i suppose the flags are meant to be capped in order. In this example, MEC is Team A, which is ("attacking" or) "controlling the ball" by defending very well. Now, US (team B) has managed to get one guy through the frontline and he's near the back flag called "market". Then, the sneaker guy makes Bravo squad and the whole US team (team B teleporting) has joined the bravo squad, spawned, left the bravo squad(thus allowing new guys to join the squad and spawn) and created new squads near the back flag. The whole situation in this map is changed. Team A has "lost the ball", because team b isn't attacking them from their flags, but they've managed to make a squad behind enemy lines, a long way from their own flag, because of spawning on squadleader. I want to remove that people are able to spawn behind enemy lines. that's all i want to restrict about spawning on squadleader.

That simply does not happen in public play, at least on a large enpough scale to matter. Sure, if I play with a buddy we sometimes switch up, but if you have more than 3 guys it bogs down. Its an issue in competition, its just not an issue in public play.

Squads make is easier to defend back flags. Even if the flag greys you instantly have people counterattacking.




[tR]Mad Mac

Aerospace Engineering FTW!

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#9 13 years ago
caenowell, seems like you've never played a clan match in BF2... or if you have, you and your opponent weren't top clans :)

So we should disable a great feature to improve public play (the majority of play that happens online) for the needs of the few who play competitively? I was under the idea that anything goes in competitive matches (regardless of whether its cheap/lame/unrealistic, whatever). Thus, if both sides can use this feature a CAL/TWL match, why remove it? About your point of the soccer game and flags. The flags in BF2 are too many, too far between, and of no tactical importance. Seriously, Dragon Valley has 10 flags! When these flags are just sprinkled out over a map, people are spread too thin, and of course one man will sneak by and have the ability for his teamates to spawn on him. But who (in a public game) is going to wait around for him to get there so they can spawn? Anyways, I think the incentive to "exploit" the spawn system is a product of lame map design and a limited capacity for strategic gameplay. Instead of focusing on a modified spawn system, the devs should put their efforts into intelligent map layout, place flags only at strategic locations (that people will actually WANT to defend, no one likes having to sit around at an empty flag way in the back waiting for a single jeep to come every few minutes), or perhaps even develop a new system of flag capturing. There is a server side mod in BF2 where you can only capture the flags nearest the ones you already have. Its like push, but each flag has 2-3 options for the next flag to take instead of one. Something like that would more than remedy the problem.




[SYN] hydraSlav

SYNERGY Member

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2nd October 2003

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#10 13 years ago
caenowell, seems like you've never played a clan match in BF2... or if you have, you and your opponent weren't top clans :)

I have, and we played Warchild, 20ID, [HOT] and a number of other top clans (yup... unlucky bracket for us this season :( ), and i don't see any issues of spawning on squad leader. On the contrary, it adds that much more depth into the game and the strategy. Like it was said, just like a squad leader can bring his full squad behind the enemy line, an opposing squad leader can "regroup" the whole base's defence even when it's grey (or even turned to the enemy). From the clan matches POV, this is a great feature.

As far as public goes... don't confuse one thing. Clan matches = 8, 12 (15 is a new max) players... Public = 64 players. Not only is it improbable that everyone in a public game will be smart enough to leave the squad if they died as a squad leader and rejoin in order to remain with the rest of the squad, but your squads are also limited to only 6 people.

And the front lines? Vehicles make the front lines. And vehicles can't spawn on the squad leaders. There will still be front lines, as vehicles slowly push accross the map.