Maschinenpistole 38 and friends -1 reply

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terminal-strike

terminal-strike

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6th May 2004

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#1 13 years ago

Ok we have all probably read the converstion that takes place on the polish maps...some smart guy will mention something about mp40, but it being 1939 and then sooner or later somone chimes in get over it its like the same thing. In fact there was even a whole forum thread about it while back. ( http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?t=155767 ) Well I finally decided to go hunting for the mp 38, and guess what- it actually does seem it would look noticeabley different then the 40. I did however run into some problems as sources are kinda murky and contradict eachother. On the plus side I uncoverd a lot of interesting things about the weapon, as possible weps for fh. There are actually many versions of the series as it turns, but ill just do a quick overview. Without going back to far to ( such as to all the mp18 relate ones etc). The most intial version I came across was the EMP 36 mp1.jpghttp://www.machinegunbooks.com/mp36sample.html Unfortunetely the only place this could go it could go is on a map of a us commando raid to kill goering, where they ended up fighting goeriing elite paratroopers gaurds around his mansion north of berlin. One us commando took the weapon sn#014 from the mansion. Dunno of any other 'use' in ww2 though. Ok then of course the main deal is the MP-38 but Iv been finding two conflicting images of what the weapon itself actually looks like. They generally agree though that the main Mp40 model weighed 8.87 pounds, and the Mp-38 9.5 pounts or thereabouts specs compared--> http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/articles/wow/mp3840/stats.jpg ok here is one style people say is a mp-38. The lighter metallic color, the ribbing(more on this ribbiing later), and especially the plastic rather then stamped metal under piece all seem to point it being a mp-38. A number of site agree too. decent page on the weapon- http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/articles/wow/mp3840/index.htm mp38.jpghttp://www.fegyver.org/ismertet/mp40_schm.html line drawing http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/articles/wow/mp3840/mp38.jpg and the other stlye some site say is the Mp-38, specifically note the ribbing on the top and the hole in the magazine holder. I cant tell if the parts that are aluminum and plastic on the 38 are steel either. The mest up thing is that these have no ribbing on the magazine hold, which some say mp38s had, and some dont. arm184.jpghttp://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/submachg/armsmg2.htm#182 mp38a.jpghttp://www.armemuseum.org/foremal/moderna/kpist/mp38.html Note that even if its this one, that does look more simialair in tone. All the main production mp40s iv seen has a smooth top not these grooves. OK moving on, after poland they had a problem with it going off accidently, so they made a improved saftey version- the MP-38/40. The key feature being a extra indent for the cocking bar. Many of the older were updated to the new standard. I have not found pics I can pic out as this though. The first real model known as the MP-40 of course did away with plastic front hold magazine guard- now metal, and the previosuly plastic part was now also stamped steel. The improved saftey feature and other things. One thing I can say for sure is the intial MP-40 models did NOT have a ribbed magazine housing, this was later. firearms_smg_mp40_01.jpg See note the lack of ribbing, this is a early version Mp40. THe main production, of the over 1 million mp40s made were mainly of this type picured below with ribbing, which are techincally called Mp40/1 by some sources. Of couese in general it was just still called mp40. note how the ribbing on the horizontal ribbing on the frame were the magazine attaches is there now. mp40_blowbackIMG_1737.jpg Beyond this there is still a few things. A special Mp40/II was experimented with that featured a 64 round maganzine, with a special side by side twin clip arrangment (but continouse feed). No pic of this either unfor. It did not go to mass production but the was field tested, the exact amount of service having conflictin information in the sources iv seen. There is another, the MP-41, which looks like a Mp40 with a wooden stock. The rear portion being similar to the MP-28 (i.e nearly identical to the Mp 18). It was mainly only used by police forces officially- they wanted the wood to use as a club according to one souces. Unofficially it did see some action with other ground foces though, so maybe in berlin. 00643_01.JPG Only other versions I came across was a tiny mention of a prototype one with 1000 rpm, a version oflimted number fitted with a silencer, and some versin (very few) fitted with a ir beam(no scope). Not found anything beyond just mention of these though. Another detail is the german 9mm round- Iv mentioned this elsewhere but any weapon supplied with 9mm would not normally have been brass colored but laqured metal appearing a variety of colors. Also of note, weapons useing a silencee would use sub-sonic low-charge ammo with a green case (also on this site) http://cartridgecollectors.org/intro9mm/ image073.jpg OK well thats a quick overview of the mp38 ones. There are of couese other options too mainly the ones based of the mp 18, which also a fair amount of service. Namely, the MP-28, but also the MP-34 Soloth. Mp-34/1 Bergman, The Erma, and even the MP-18. The british lanchester, an clone of the mp28 (some differences) could be for the british on some early war maps as well and for the british navy among the other related types that served with various countires. Thats all I could find on mp40 variants though, and of course the mp 38 ended being a bit conflicted.




Ohioan

Not Wise Shitashi - Cheston

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6th October 2003

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#2 13 years ago

Those are some great sites! Thanks for the links.




Meadow

You might very well think that

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21st February 2004

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#3 13 years ago

A nice, well put together post. Well done. If all suggestion posts were like this, this forum would be superb.

On topic: I'd like to see the MP41 given to some officers on certain maps, and of course the MP38 on Fall Weiss and Eastern Blitz.




Von Mudra

Lo, I am Mudra, za emo soldat!

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25th September 2004

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#4 13 years ago

MP34.jpg

This would be nice, the MP34 smg, it had a 32 round magizine Also, really needed in the german bren gun, the ZB26/MG26, it had a 30 round magizine, but much smaller magizine size then the bren, due to double rowed ammo, and smaller ammo size. ZB26.jpg




terminal-strike

terminal-strike

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#5 13 years ago

thanks! Yea that would work out, right now I think even the mp18 (*cough* mp 28) could good go as a kit, or maybe as the tankers random smg. From what im read they secretly produced many mp18s after ww1, and of course production on the mp28 was underway too. So at the time of poland the main smgs would have been a mix of mp28s and mo38s. Iv not been able to find how much the other were used though (i.e mp34 etc.). The main thing Im curious about though, is what what the real mp 38 looked like. (will the real mp38 please stand up)




D-Fens

uwe bolltastic!

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#6 13 years ago

ZB-26 is Checkoslovakian and the mother of all Brens and Japanese clones, don't know how much it was used by the Germans, and in frontline duty. Better would maybe the Zb-37/Mg37(t) be since if it's coded maybe there's a small chance the Panzer38(t) mg's would also get the right code instead of mg34's. http://www.machinegundealer.com/zb37.jpg




Von Mudra

Lo, I am Mudra, za emo soldat!

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#7 13 years ago

Well, actually, the ZB26 was widly used by the german army after they took over Chezcosolvakia. It just isn't well known outside of the WW2 community. Like the PPS-43, MG34, Maxim, Vickers, etc.... People know the MG42, Garend, Thompson, Ppsh, and all, so that is what you normally hear about.




terminal-strike

terminal-strike

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#8 13 years ago

Yea both those would be good, also the zb-30. Could be a good kit on or even replace the mg34 class on some maps, and also could be use with some other countries.. Only game iv seen the zb-26 so far is hidden and dangerious 2, they had it in the demo Iv never see the 30 or the 37 though. Another easy one for the germans would be doing a captured ppsh, the mp717(r) which used 9mm (and usually mp40 clips). THe soviet single clip was curved not straight so it would look different either way. http://www.continet.com/montyipsc/ppsh2.html a converted ppsh, a mp717(r). note the straight mp-40 clip. testppsh2.gif This is one of the things that lead to the creation of the 64 round double clip I mentioned earlier (which I dont know how much use it saw). The extent/possabilty of use of the large drum clip I have not found about either. The conversion of the pssh though, to 9mm and using mp40 clips was quite common.




terminal-strike

terminal-strike

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#9 13 years ago

ok is THIS this MP 38--> mp38.jpg or is THIS--> mp38a.jpg