Operation Fall Gelb: Dutch weapons -1 reply

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[130.Pz]W.Fuchs

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20th March 2008

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#1 10 years ago

Alot of people are posting these threads lately so I want to join them with making a thread about my own nation, the Dutch. The Dutch weapons where, in my opinion, obsolete to what the Germans brought with them. It won't be a very long thread since the Dutch army during Fall Gelb didn't had that many different weapons. Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 We will start with the rifle used by the Dutch forces. The Steyr-Mannlicher was a rifle designed by Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher. He was a Austrian weapon designer. Steyr comes from the Austrian city, where it was produced. The Dutch did not call it Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 but Mannlicher M95. The rifle came in two different versions, the rifle version and the carbine version. The rifle version was the original model. It's a long rifle. The carbine is just a shortened rifle version. On Decembre 4 the Dutch received these rifles to finally get rid of the obsolete Beaumont black powder rifles. According to Wikipedia alot of these rifles ended up in the hands of African guerilla warriors in the seventies. The original Steyr-Mannlicher used a calibre of 8mm, this was later adapted to 7,92mm to fit the German rounds gived to Austrian and Hungarian troops during World War 1. Note: According to the Dutch wikipedia it has 6,5mm rounds, but I don't trust this.. Anyone know more of this? Edit: I believe it was adapted for the Dutch to fit the No. 1 round. Which is 6,5mm.

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The carbine version. This one is manufactured in Budapest.

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steyr_m95_pat.jpg

A sketch that shows the mechanism of the Steyr-Mannlicher.

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Loading the rifle, note the typical bloc clip.

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steyr_m95.jpg

The long rifle version. Probably manufactured around the Great War.

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BAYONET.jpg

The Steyr-Mannlicher with bayonet attached. This is the original bayonet from 1895. This is where I stop, my next post in this thread will feature the Browning M.25. Hope you enjoyed it, Invictus.




[130.Pz]W.Fuchs

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#2 10 years ago

Browning M.25 The FN Browning 1922 or as the Dutch called it, the Browning M.25, was the standard side-arm by the Dutch forces during WW2. It was a high quality pistol from the well known Browning factory. The Dutch police forces used the No. 1 version which has a calibre of 7.65mm and the Army used the No. 2 version which is 9mm. It was used by the Landmacht so that Lewis crews would have a weapon to defend themselves in tight situations. The Dutch had around 6000 of these pistols. No. 1 has a magazine capacity of 9 rounds while the No. 2 has 1 less in it's magazine. Maybe a well known fact is that the brother of this pistol, the 1910, was used to assasinate Ferdinand, which caused the Great War. It was another great design by the famous John M. Browning. The 1922 was actually a 1910 which was modified to fit the requirements of the Jugoslavian army.

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The Browning 1910, which was the original design for the 1922.

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The Browning 1922, note the larger magazine and barrel.

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A cut out view of the 1922. Another weapon covered! The next weapon will not be done this fast but I'll tell you it's the Lewis M.20 machine gun. Invictus.




Polska

"The original one"

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#3 10 years ago
.Invictus.;4743712The original Steyr-Mannlicher used a calibre of 8mm, this was later adapted to 7,92mm to fit the German rounds gived to Austrian and Hungarian troops during World War 1. Note: According to the Dutch wikipedia it has 6,5mm rounds, but I don't trust this.. Anyone know more of this? Edit: I believe it was adapted for the Dutch to fit the No. 1 round. Which is 6,5mm.

The guns were delivered to fire the 6,5mm rounds, however reports from the colonies indicated that these rounds lacked the necessary stopping power to injure a person badly enough to stop him (the bullets would go straigh through the target at short range). In 1910 the department of war, the colonies and the navy set up a commission to test several new types of ammunition. Several M.95 guns were changed to fire 7,9mm rounds combined with Dutch rounds with a that held the German 7,9mm bullet. The test results were very successful and the commission concluded in 1912 that all rifles should be bored up to use the 7,9mm round. However for unknown reasons this was never pressed through and thus the 6,5mm round was still used in 1940.

Also, .Invictus please check your PM :p




[130.Pz]W.Fuchs

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#4 10 years ago

Send you a PM back, got no problems with you giving feedback :) Going to do Lewis tonight.




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#5 10 years ago

Arn't the Steyr-Mannlicher Rifles also known as Carcannos?




Polska

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#6 10 years ago

Both the Dutch Hembrug (late model) and the Carcano are based on the Steyrn-mannlicher design.




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#7 10 years ago

Oh, ok.




Von Mudra

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#8 10 years ago

Main difference being that the Steyr is a straight pull design.




Polska

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#9 10 years ago

Revolver ''Nieuw Model'' (New Model)

The Revolver ''Nieuw Model'' ( called M73 NM by Hembrug, however this was not the official name) was by at the time of the invasion in May 1940 the oldest hand fire-arm available in the Dutch army.

The revolver was ordered to replace the Revolver ''Oud Model'' (Old Model) which has been in use by the Dutch army since the late 19th Centery. The Revolver ''Nieuw Model'' (New Model) was delivered in 1909 by A.I. (''Artillerie Inrichting'') and delivered in batches up to 1915 when the company began focusing more on Hembrug M.95 rifles and carbines.

The revolver begun being replaced by the M.25 (both No.1 and No.2) when these became available in 1925, but by 1940 there were still some 17.500 Revolvers ''Nieuw Model'' in use by the following second-line forces such as Engineers (including the bridge building troops), Military Administration, Medical service troops and motor vehicle troops. Second-line forces that operated within units that used the M.25 Pistolwere issued the M.25 pistol rather then the Revolver ''Nieuw Mode''.

Several troops from the Landstorm corpses were also issued with this revolver.

Weight; 1,3Kg Calibre; 9,44mm Capacity; 6 rounds no.5

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In the following days I will post information about the following weapons;

  • M.95 Carbines (there are several versions of these which are notable to make post about)
  • M.08 Scharzlose machine-gun
  • M.18 Vickers machine-gun
  • M.20 Lewis (depending on if .Invictus wants to do this one or not)
  • M.25 Spandau machine-gun
  • Solothurn S18-1000 Anti-tank rifle
  • Handgrenades
  • Experimental/notable weapons

I also plan to post about the weapons that were used by the Dutch Marines, and the weapons that were in used by the KNIL ( Army of the Dutch East Indies).

.Invictus.;4743714The Dutch had around 6000 of these pistols.

Seems like you forgot a zero there friend, the total number was around 60.000 pistols.




Slayer1976

Requesting artillery fire!

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#10 10 years ago
Polska;4744873In the following days I will post information about the following weapons;
  • M.95 Carbines (there are several versions of these which are notable to make post about)
  • M.08 Scharzlose machine-gun
  • M.18 Vickers machine-gun
  • M.20 Lewis (depending on if .Invictus wants to do this one or not)
  • M.25 Spandau machine-gun
  • Solothurn S18-1000 Anti-tank rifle
  • Handgrenades
  • Experimental/notable weapons
I also plan to post about the weapons that were used by the Dutch Marines, and the weapons that were in used by the KNIL ( Army of the Dutch East Indies).

I've been looking around for which weapons were used for AA, at first I could only find "Luchtdoelmitrailleur" (AA machinegun) and "Luchtdoelartillerie" (AA gun). But later I found at one site they name the machineguns "Spandau" and they mention Vickers 7.5 cm AAA. After the war, my dad was in an AA guns-unit just before he was shipped to Indonesia. His older brother fought in 1940 at Moerdijk Bridge.

Also, the AA units were among the more succesful Dutch units: they shot down several aircraft (I read about numbers mounting up over 400). Apart from the AA machineguns and AA guns the "pantserwagens" (armoured cars) were used in the defense against the airborne invasion of the Dutch airfields.

Edit: sent you and Invictus a PM ;)