Push maps -1 reply

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Solo4114

Scoundrel Extraordinaire

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16th September 2002

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#1 13 years ago

Not sure if this has come up but if push maps (or something like it) are going to be included in FH2, I'd like to offer a few suggestions for general design.

First, I think the purpose of push maps should be discussed. My understanding is that push maps are designed to create a single front. This avoids the whole "Ninja jeep" thing that happens on regular conquest maps. You all fight at one flag and when that flag is captured, fall back/push forward to the next one in line.

With that as the guiding principle, I think future push maps need two specific things:

1.) Uniform design

I don't mean the layout is identical, but in current FH push maps, some maps you have flags that can be recaptured by the defenders and some don't. Even within maps some flags can be recaptured and some can't. It'd make more sense and be easier for players to actually play the maps if there was a single approach to this issue. Either all flags should be recapturable by the enemy, or no flags should. For all push maps.

For example, as I recall, Alpenfestung lets you recapture all of the flags (I think). By contrast, Saipan DOESN'T let you recapture flags 1-4, but you can recapture flags 5-6. This leads to rounds where the Axis waste their time trying to retake flags that are uncapturable when they should be falling back to defend the next flag in line. Of course, it makes sense if the flag IS recapturable, but a lot of players don't know which are and which aren't.

A single approach to push maps and whether flags can be recaptured would help make gameplay a lot better.

2.) Mechanical concerns

As I understand it, the map designers want people to play a push map as a moving front. Depending on how many lines of defense or defensive strongholds you have, you want the players to attack them in order, having a good tough fight along the way. What you DON'T want is for there to be "domino effect" captures where one or two guys sneak to a flag that isn't currently capturable, but lie in wait until it is capturable, only to have basically two flags get captured in a matter of seconds.

Hopefully BF2 can handle push maps better than BF1942, so we won't need to allow flags to be captured in 10 seconds to avoid breaking the whole map. But basically, if you guys want the maps to be played a certain way, maybe some kind of moving "out of bounds for this team" zone should be applied to push maps. I don't even know if this is possible, but if it were it would really make push maps a lot more enjoyable.




Tas

Serious business brigade

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4th September 2004

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#2 13 years ago

If you have BF2 you can try PRMM and their Assailt and secure game mode, its basicly push mode of FH, but flags take a much longer time to cap, so dominoing flags should be extremely hard if not impossible, because as soon as someone spawns in the flag area, the "capping" is halted.




Solo4114

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#3 13 years ago

That's good. I need to check PRMM out. I've heard they're still checking it for compatibility with the 1.3 patch (which I haven't bothered to download yet since I've been playing a lot of RO lately). I'm hoping they'll add all the unlockable weapons to the mod so I can actually freaking get to USE the guns I PAID for already, but that's a side issue.

Anyway, that approach sounds like it'd discourage the "precappers" out there. I'd still like to see an "out of bounds" area for the enemy that actually moves with the front if possible.




pvt. Allen

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20th July 2005

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#4 13 years ago

Unrecpaturable flags are done on certain maps to avoid miss-balance or achive some specific gameplay. If players are ignorant enough to not read the minimap or the bars on flag poles then it's their fault.




Guest

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#5 13 years ago
Solo4114That's good. I need to check PRMM out. I've heard they're still checking it for compatibility with the 1.3 patch

From what I've played of it today there aren't any problems with it and the 1.3 patch, but you should definitley check it out .




caeno

Yeah.

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9th August 2003

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#6 13 years ago

You guys do know that even some official maps have minimaps saved with mipmaps so they don't really work for people who use low texture quality. All they see is blur on the minimap and can't read any text.

That same goes for the little roadsings etc. on the maps which are intented to be read, but if you use low texture quality all you see is sings with no text - you might see some blurry figures on them aswell. Still, with low quality textures some of the hints mappers put in etc. go to waste as everyone doesen't play with high quality settings.




The Ultimate Drifter

*Professional Drunk Driver*

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1st October 2004

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#7 13 years ago

A push map like Tobruk is fine but a linear map like Alpen is lame. I understand the point of push maps but maybe rather than having 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 we could see a lot of maps with all the front flags as 1's and the main as a 2. That way after you cap everything to can cap the main but it doesn't force you in some sorry ass order. I think that would make more sense.




caeno

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9th August 2003

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#8 13 years ago

Agreed, more tactical options is always good. Maps that have flags in somewhat similar way as in tobruk or operation lilliput are, Imo, a lot better just because they allow some tactical changes.




Solo4114

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#9 13 years ago

I have no problem with a linear map like Alpenfestung, but if you're going to do that, there needs to be something in place to discourage "precaping" by sending those few guys "behind enemy lines" to be in place to "domino" the map.

It probably can't be done with BF2's engine but a moving "off limits for this team" zone would be ideal. Like the map out of bounds in terms of how it kills you, but it changes position based on who has what flag.

I'm not as concerned with BF1942's problems because I doubt they'll be repeated. There's no need to worry about, for example, the 2 second capture time (I hope). I do think consistent map design will solve a lot of problems, though.

By the way, I've heard folks talk about "Supply Line" mode. What exactly is this? anyone know?




[79th]Sgt-D

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#10 13 years ago

I agree with Solo (but, Solo, what's exactly a "Scoundrel"??) I suppose a "supply line" is some sort of "convoy map", like the one [79th]Le_Chat is making for FH1. I suggested an embush-convoy map for my team, I know I should translate the whole thing here someday... It couldn't work with the vanilla bf engine, but maybe it will be possible with BF2. I made the entire scenario, but unfortunately I can't at all do the more little mapwork myself. (ya hear me Pvt Allen :lol: ?) it would entirely change the gameplay as you don't have to cap or hold flags, but ride some supply trucks to an assieged point, every type of truck (ammo, fuel, food, medics etc) giving your team and the driver a certain number of points to jam the ticket drain... (and every truck destroyed by defenders give'em proportionnal points too)